Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - General Music composer for D:OS2?

Soule is kind of like Zimmer : very good music, with not a lot of heart. I mean, the man knows what he is doing, but seems afraid or unwilling to go that extra miles, that do that "all out" thing that Kirill did. Apart from a few very memorable theme ( ES comes to mind, with a spectacular take on it for Skyrim ), Soule's compositions are mostly ... ah, how to put this. Travel musics ? It goes very well with the hiking aspect of the ES games, but you wouldn't listen to that otherwise. Sometimes it's kinda heroic, but again "generic" heroic.

Kirill had that spark that Larian never tried ( or seemed to try ) to extinguish : his genre was all over the place ! A DOS ost is a patchwork of musical compositions that doesn't seem to have a clearly established genre, but that was a big part of Larian games atmosphere.

[edit: Ah! while I typed this, LordCrash expressed the same opinion of Kirill's work :p]

I agree too that nothing should prevent a reknown composer from doing musics for video games. In fact, Zimmer did the ost of some Call of Duty. After all, CoD games tend to emulate the 7th art, so it's not really a surprise.
I really wonder who Larian has been in touch with. I trust their taste, though. I'm kinda excited to learn who will take the job =) Or maybe they could stay true to Kirill's legacy and just ask multiple composers to create a few pieces, rather than ask one to compose all.

While we're at it:

http://kirillpokrovsky.mirror.ga/memorial/hd/

RIP Maestro

Nobody could ever follow him I fear. But when I listen to his music again I come to the conclusion that Divinity needs another Russian composer. Nobody can compose music that is both so incredibly sad and melancholic and joyful at the same time than those Russians...


Edit: For those of you who are new to the Divinity series and don't know Kirill you can download every single Divinity soundtrack and all of Kirill's piano works here (legally and for free): http://files.solsocog.de/pokrovsky/

What do you guys think about Tilman Sillescu? He is a german composer who has written quite alot, even together with Hans Zimmer for Crysis 2. He is cofounder of Dynamedion which composed for Risen 2 and TES online.

Here is two good examples of his:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KMTK5OL8as
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mywlY1ou9w

I don't want to be cruel but the track for Spellforce 2 that you linked here sounds extremely generic to me, without any heart or memorability.

The one for Anno 1404 is imo much better, but still typically pompous (aka "I have an orchestra so I must use all instruments and make "epic" music."). But maybe that's just the specific song here. I can remember the main theme for Anno 1404 and a lot of other tracks from the game which I liked a lot. Was the whole soundtrack composed by Tilman?

Movie/video game composers aren't willing to go the extra mile to get out of the swamp that is the early/mid Romanticism idea. That's because it's easy to listen to and The Masses(tm) don't like music that is hard to listen to (like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsIATAaR-X0 or even this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWotpIy0uTg and these aren't the most "out there" examples of 20th century music). They don't like it because they don't understand it and it makes them feel inferior. That's why movie composers regurgitate Renaissance voice-leading with Classical tonality and most of them sound the same. Renaissance music in general is so uniform that you'd think they were living in an Orwellian nightmare (and they were). Horror soundtracks are actually more open-minded and modern than mainstream movie OSTs.

You'd be hard pressed to find a game developer who actually wants modern and professional music. Movies by genius directors (like Stanley Kubrick) are more willing to put serious music in their soundtracks. He used Also Sprach Zarathustra by Strauss, some pieces by Aram Khachaturian and Ligeti's Requiem (the Kyrie part - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdkI49Cvofk) in 2001: A Space Odyssey. I could go on, but the most important part is that game developers (except horror) don't want to use modern music or anything more complicated than what we get. Even late Romanticism music would be fine, even though that movement isn't my favorite. In this context any composer would do, because it is easy.

Yeah it was Tilman.

Oh my... so many comments here, i dont have time to go through them all now.... Ehm, can someone here tell me who did you all find to be most suitable?

p.s. I read Anno 1404 here somewhere, i must say that i liked soundtrack in Anno 1404 a lot! It really captured the atmosphere!

You know that this is quite insulting? People have many different reasons why they prefer certain music. There is genuinely nothing wrong with that. I don't think that there is any reason to look down on others just because they don't share your preferences.

Also video game and movie music is naturally made to support the emotions transported by text, voice and action that happens on the screen. It doesn't have to speak on its own, quite the opposite. The music in media is not at all supposed to take a front seat and tell something on its own. It's supposed to support. Some "en vogue" projects might include music as another means to transport content but that's quite rare and in itself not something that has to happen or is superior to anything else. So your accusation of people "not understanding" modern music is totally out of place here since there is in most cases nothing to understand in video game and movie music. It's "only" an emotional support and therefore most composers indeed use rather melodic music (or what most people would call that).

I heavily doubt Larian wants to make experients with the music for Divinity. While Kirill made all kinds of different music with different instruments for Divinity, he never left himself the sphere of "mass market music" as you might put it. So why should his successor? I don't think it would be a good fit to this series and its heritage.


Edit: I would also be careful when I use words like "serious" or "professional" in an environment in which I only want to devalue and dismiss certain stuff. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that it's technically bad or unprofessional...

I'm not insulting anyone, I didn't say they *are* inferior, I said it makes them feel inferior. Serious music doesn't have the connotation you think it has. It's used to differentiate between Unterhaltungsmusik (U-musik) and serious music. U-musik is popular music that isn't done purely for art (like commercial music). It has no negative connotations.

Don't opt out so easily. You also said professional. And I'm pretty sure most Unterhaltungsmusik is pretty professional as well.

Also people don't automatically feel inferior if they don't understand what a composer wants to tell with his music. You can consume music on many levels. Many people stay happily on the melodic level and there's nothing wrong with that. If they don't like certain music it doesn't mean they feel inferior. That you imply that IS in fact insulting, sorry.

And it also becomes quite off-topic, since the music for Divinity was never supposed to be serious music (as you like to call it) but pure support for content that happens on the screen. You might not like the idea of that but that's just how it is. The only purpose for this kind of music is to support emotions and the action and content that is visually displayed on the screen and told by characters and sound effects imo.

Professional also doesn't have the connotations you think it has :p There is no negative connotation attached to non-professional U-musik. Professional music is called the music that is composed with modern academic technique. Music doesn't support emotions or has emotions in it though, it only elicits them. I'm just explaining why most movie/video game music sounds the same. You are simply not familiar with the terminology and that's why you think it has negativity attached to it.

Divinity's music could use some shaking up, though. :p I'd like to see more chamber music, rather than the generic bombastic orchestras with percussion that slams into you rather than complementing the climactic points.

And that means?

Music that implies advanced structural and theoretical considerations and a written musical tradition. Unless I'm not understanding your question?

I understand it quite well I think. Still sounds A LOT like pure elitism to me, established by some people who want to look more professional like others (like the name implies)...

But I don't want to start a flamewar here or anything. We can both stick to our opinions and just go on, dropping the topic.

I do not care what theoritical considerations and written musical tradition a composer has. My main goal is to enjoy the game. Music is one of many things that create a good atmoshere that fits to the things happening in the game.

I do not know much about professional composers, but I can tell you my personal taste:

- The music in PoE was not impressive. I finished the game twice, but I do not remember any of it 1 sec after I stop playing.

- Gothic1+2 and Risen1 were some of my favourite games. But I do not remember the music so well because I played them a long time ago.

- There are 2 games where I remember the music after a very long time:
+ beyond good and evil. I was the only sountrack I downloaded on gog and I listen to it often. "Dance with the Domz" is my favourite. But I do not think this type of music fits to D:OS2.
+ Realms of arcadia3: I made a save in the mage tower in the swamp so I can listen to the music whenever I want. I have no idea what they are singing (is it latin?) but it sound fantastic.

I was explaining that we differentiate between types of music. It is an axiomatic triangle consisting of 'folk', 'serious' and 'popular' (U-musik) musics and there is nothing negative associated with either of these. I was explaining what is meant by "serious music". Someone here also mentioned that much of the music in video games is the same. I was trying to explain why they are the same and why something new won't happen for a long time. That's it. You people jumping me for perceived slights isn't all that fair :p

Who says that all music of D:OS2 must be serious music.
If done well, also folk or pop music may fit to a game.
D:OS2 has a more or less middle age setting. So most modern pop music would not fit.
But maybe some fictional folk music that is based on the culture of rivallon might fit in some places.
Fictional folk music means that it reminds the player on some real world folk music, but it does not need to care for the rules of a certain type of folk music and the text (if existent) refers to the culture or history of rivallon.

I still remember the In Extremo stage event in Gothic 1.

You can't compose folk music, though, that's why it's a separate category. If you compose "folk" music it's either u-musik or serious music, depending on the architectonic, development, theoretical and logical justification of the music. Folk music has no composer and isn't composed, it's passed down from tradition and changes along the way. Its history cannot be traced in any way (tradition is the opposite of historicity in history studies) and is just there. Though composing folk-like music for the game isn't a bad idea. It will confer a feeling of tradition in the game where it's appropriate.

About it being serious music - it all depends on what the intent and skill of the composer is. They can make it serious music or not, Arcanum's soundtrack IS serious music btw and it works great - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LHLAcd14b4

You still lack the explanation why it should be serious music after all. What's the benefit?

And I'm also quite curious WHY Arcanum's soundtrack was serious.

I never said it should be, I said it *can* be. I was explaining why most movie/video game soundtracks sound the same and what can be done to make them not sound the same. Arcanum's soundtrack is serious music because it follows directly from string quartets of western classical music (which is the majority subset of what is considered serious music). Though it is, of course, way more complicated than that, but going into technical details is daunting for people not formally educated in music. Just to remind you - there is no negativity attached to any part of the folk, serious and popular musics triangle.