It isn't that. I am thinking of a way the Dagger can compliment the Rogue's style of gameplay WITHOUT making the Rogue just an alternate fighter.
They aren't meant to be in the thick of battle, but aren't as helpless as Mages would be, but are opportunistic.
So, I thought, why not make Daggers ABOUT opportunity and situation flipping which is what Rogues do best? Rogues Shine against distracted and disabled enemies.
Giving them amazing dodge ability is basically making a "Dex fighter" and what was I was trying to avoid. Certainly they need a buff to dodge... but still.
My concern is that making Daggers about being very effective on those without armor and very INeffective on those who do have armor is that what happens in fights when the only targets are those who have armor? Then the Rogue isn't going to be able to contribute very much.
This isn't a game where we can carry around a bunch of party members in our pocket and can easily swap out party members mid-fights, so making 1/4 of your members only situationally useful could be unfun. "Oh, I guess I can't do anything yet. Better skip my turn again."
It might be boring to have Rogues as a "dodge tank" (as opposed to the "health tank" of the typical warrior), but it would make for Rogues who are useful in more situations. Being a dodge tank will still have weaknesses, though, as you cannot dodge spells and don't have quite as much HP to sustain yourself.
And again, as I've said, those targets without armor are already likely to be rangers or mages - priority targets for all classes, and likely to be lower in HP and so fairly easy to take out for all classes.
So take the Rogue's gameplay which isn't about sustained battle but in and out fighting, backstabs, and opportunistic fighting... In fact right there you can easily get distinctions. They need options for when it isn't available, but that is their prime gameplay.
You're describing real-time gameplay. This isn't a real-time game.
Their other advantage is that they are able to disengage and safely engage more easily. Even against Wizards and hazards they are the ones who can traverse it.
How are they able to disengage and safely engage more easily? What allows them to do so?
So here is just a hypothetical Rapier ability.
-Rapier: When making a direct forward facing attack, Rogues move back a few steps ignoring AoO
-Rapier: A rogue can make one free attack with a rapier, yet forfet any other attacks for the turn.
What do you mean a forward-facing attack? Since you always have to attack targets in front of you by default, it seems to me like you're suggesting the Rogue attack targets from the target's front. But Rogue weapons have to be weaker than warrior weapons for reasons I've outlined elsewhere. So yay, you can do ineffective damage but escape more easily?
The second ability is very restrictive and doesn't seem like it does anything helpful. Yay, an attack uses no AP, but you can't do anything else but run no matter what?
Complicate dagger-class weapons with too many rules and conditions (not present on other weapon classes) and you'll have players going "you know what, screw this, I'll just hit things with an axe."
I'll remind you that in D:OS 1, each weapon had a different level and different damage points. You needed to constantly upgrade weapons to stay relevant. That would have to be changed in D:OS 2 for such a system to work.
It is all about giving classes complimentary weapons that boost their style of play as opposed to giving them rock scissor paper abilities.
You don't consider "pitiful in taking down Armor HP, yet great in taking down Raw HP" as rock-paper-scissors?
regarding rogues, I have some ideas:
- Each weapon has a backstab value. This means you get a bonus to attack and damage when you attack an enemy from behind. This value is 0 or very small for some weapons and very high for others (daggers maybe).
- Rogues have a talent that the bonus is higher for them and that the bonus is even higher when attacking from invisibility or stealth (the new backstab talent)
- Rogues can have a talent that they also get the damage bonus when attacking an enemy who cannot defend himself (like stunned). That is the "coup de grace" talent from DA:O.
- Rogues get a skill that they can move behind a nearby enemy without provoking an attack of opportunity. You can do this even if you could not go there normally but there must be some free space behind the enemy. (means for example you can do it when you are surrounded. I think of something like climbing or jumping over the enemy). If it fails you suffer an attack of opportunety and do not move, if it hits you move behind the enemy and if it is a critical hit you move behind the enemy and deal some damage.
You mean, all of those at once? That's an awful lot of stuff to stack onto the tooltip of a dagger.
The game has no preset classes and in fact allows for hybrid classes. I don't even think that the tags include "Rogue". So that makes it difficult to restrict such talents.
Additionally, I see no reason to allow all other classes to backstab. It was removed from D:OS 1 for eating into the role of the Rogue too much.
