Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - General Racial Talents

I like the idea that bonusses depend on your tags. (like in PoE, where chars with the soldier backgound get a bonus to athletics and those with philosopher background get a bonus to lore).
I do not think this will be a problem with the pre generated chars. You will have more chars to select from in the final game. It makes sense, if Lohse for example is a scholar than she has more int and Ifan as soldier has more strengh.
Pre generated chars do not need to be optimized (think of companions in BG or PoE). The game is not so difficult that you need a perfectly optimized char to finish it. If you are obsessed with min maxing, you can create your own char if you want.

In this case the race would only define your racial ability.

It's not about difficulty, it's about having the best of both worlds between RP and gameplay mechanics. If you want the most story and quests and cool dialogue options, the pre-generated characters are the way to go. Sebille has the rogue and scholar tags, let's say that gives you finesse and memory, the player is once again nudged towards the scoundrel or huntsman route. It's better than the current system but nothing fundamental has changed.

I like the way racial distinction is handled currently. +2 to a given attribute is not going to make much difference after the first few levels. Nor will an extra skill point. I think this is the a good way to keep races distinct without forcing them to play certain classes.

Imo it should be this

Humans = +2 Persuasion, one extra tag
Dwarves = +2 Bartering, find extra gold in loot
Lizard = +2 Leadership, can dig with claws
Elves = +2 Lucky Charm, eat body parts for lore

[quote=Asgharm]I honestly think it would work best if bonuses were tied to the tags you picked. You're a scholar? Well that sounds like an int buff to me. Barbarian? Strength, anyone? Noble could be 1 int and 1 persuasion. Sure this might push some bonuses on the prebuilt characters that you wouldn't really want, but it would fit with their personalities more that way. At least in my opinion. [/quote]

I feel like that will just be another way to pigeonhole. Every fighter character will be a barbarian. Every spell caster will be a scholar. Then whats the point of even letting you pick tags?

My opinion on the Racial stat bonuses is that I think it makes sense for different races to have different qualities like that. HOWEVER, I think the 3 stats STR, FIN, and INT should be reworked so that they are more generic like the other 3 CON, MEM, WIT. They should all be useful to have for any character. Then you could actually have a lizard warrior and no worry about the waste 2 INT

I posted a longer suggestion, but the idea would just be those stats give various bonuses to ALL abilities rather than specific subsets. For instance STR improves damage for all abilities. FIN improves accuracy and status effects armor penetration, INT improves AOE size or range or reduces cooldown

I bump that topic, for all the reason mentioned above.

Races should essentially be a role-playing or esthetical choice. Indeed it's also a part of the min/max game, but then, by some adjustments in the meta-game builds.
A raw main-stat bonus can't just be.

When a say "adjustment", let's directly go into examples.

- Elves have Elegant. Can't it just be : "Elves may always wear leather, mail armor and bows, wheater or not they match the Dex requirement" And then "Elves in mail/leather armor gain a +X% dodge bonus, that bonus according to their Strength" and "Elves may use their Memory for bow attacks and Dex for sword attacks".
--> Ok then, even a fighter elf could now go into mail while competitive (lightly better) with their plated fellows. And elves mages could use leather armor. Plus, Dex for swords could let them make bladed rogues, and Memory for bows could make new hybrid builds.

- Dwarves have Sturdy. "Dwarves may always wear plate armor, bucklers and crossbows, wheater or not they match the Str requirement". And then "if they don't match the Str requirement on an armor, they suffer a penality at their starting and max AP of 1, and a spell reduction of 5m." and "Dwarves may use their Str for crossbow attacks and Con for axe attacks".
--> Rangers may use plates, mages too - but with significant range malus, so they also should wear bucklers, fighters could wait for their foes while shooting with their crossbows (dwarf tactics), and every of them tank-oriented could fight with axes for hybrid builds.

- Human should have nothing more than a free talent. That's what human are best for : adaptability.

- No idea about lizards.

You see the idea. That's not power-gaming (well, maybe it is), but it also has a role-playing aspect on it.

It's not strictly a matter of power.
The real issue is that (as mentioned many times before) choosing a race you should NOT be conditioned so strongly for a class over the other because of a net stat bonus.

The +2 stat bonuses aren't super fun and tend to force each race into a particular role, especially for damage oriented builds.

Although, until the Elf Racial to Sacrifice Flesh is nerfed this won't matter, as it makes Elf by far the best race, all around.

I would be more for buffing other options than nerfing that one.
And I like how it's a generic racial trait that can suit any class/specialization.
Please note that I say this with absolutely no intention to ever play an elf as main character (so not thinking about my convenience) because I find them quite hideous.

I'm all for changing the current system that pigeonholes race into certain classes. Either make them more universal, or part of an active decisionmaking process..

I fail to see how the current stat bonuses are forcing any race to take any class. It's just 2 points guys. By the time you are level 10 it'll represent 2/24 points ( 3 level 1, 2 each level after 1, 2 from race bonus ) you have invested in your build, barely 10% of your stat budget at the time and it keeps getting lower as you level. I don't even take into account stats coming from gear. Heck for some combos like Lizard Warrior, this int bonus is good for your magic armor. The new stats system, though not perfect yet, helps with that. Unless you are a crazy min-maxer it shouldn't bother you and it shouldn't pidgeonhole anyone into anything.

Different races are naturally (and only slightly) better at different things. I think it's totally fine. Stats bonuses aren't super fun or original, it's true, but they are simple, easily balanced and hardly game breaking. Not everything has to be fancy.

It's minor true, but it just seems wasted. Intelligence currently does very little for a warrior, so already a lizard is at a disadvantage. Not to mention the breath ability is far inferior, especially as a warrior, than any of the other abilities.

So already the lizard has been pigeonholed into a caster class, or a hybrid as a minimum, if you want to min/max on the hardest difficulty.

If you look at Pillars of Eternity for example, smart Barbarians actually work really well.

The Lizard breath bonus scales based on level and Pyro only. Int has nothing to do with it.

The real waste is that the Dwarf bonuses are contradictory - they get +STR and +Sneaking, and since a Warrior/Rogue hybrid is a poor idea, at least one of those bonuses will pretty useless for your build.

You are 100% correct the 2 points mean nothing in the long run... So then what is the problem?

Ohh right because psychologically we try to optimize our play strategies. To NOT use the strength of the dwarves is to intentionally play badly even if it is rather minor.

You see those two points in strength as wasted on a rogue dwarf, I see them as a little boon for my physical armor, carrying capacity and hopefully for reduced movement penalty on armor if it ever comes back. Same for the Lizard warrior and magic armor, eventhough yes, compared to the strength bonus it seems rather poor, more so if fire breath do not scale with int.

You see that one point in sneaking wasted on a warrior, again it's just a little boon that will allow me to sneak more easily if I feel like it. ... Okay, you're right, that one seems pretty wasted regardless.

The thing is, not taking fully advantage of a racial bonus is not playing badly. Playing badly would be picking human, then put every stat points in memory and choose a caster class with a dagger. There, you do that you play badly.

Bonuses may be contradictory but they are roleplay and as a tabletop player and gm, that's what matters most in a RPG I think. So as I said, unless you're a crazy min-maxer, it's no big deal. (And if you are, It must not be fun playing only elves on your dps characters for that sweet, sweet +25% damage +1 AP.)

It would be nice if some of the other racials were competitive with Flesh Sacrifice, it is the extreme outlier.

FYI, it was nerfed to a 20% damage boost, and is still the passive king.

You're right. It's so powerful I didn't even realize it had been nerfed. I wish every racial could be this strong, or rather somewhere inbetween this and the weakest racial skill.

Sorry, that's a completely lame cop-out. "So what if it's crap, just think of it as ROLEPLAYING!"




And here's a strawman fallacy.

There is nothing "min-maxy" about pointing out that Dwarves, unlike three of the other races, are the only race who gets those contradictory bonuses. There's nothing wrong pointing out that is a little unfair - even if the bonuses don't mean much eventually.

The Dwarf can keep its +2 STR, but the +1 Sneak should be changed to something neutral.

Yes, it's minor, but this is a balance issue, just as Lizard's very poor racial skill Fire Breath is a balance issue, just as the Elf getting the most powerful racial Talent and the most powerful racial skill is a balance issue.

I didn't mean to say that having a problem with contradictory bonuses on dwarves was being a crazy min-maxer and I certainly never said that it was wrong to think it was unfair. I meant :

Those bonuses, contradictory or not, are so small that in the long run they will barely matter to anyone but someone who wants things to be extremely optimized.

Racial bonuses are set in regards to the lore. Humans are adaptive, quick-thinking and keep fighting against all odds (encourage). Dwarves are small, but sturdy and have a special link with stone.

Saying that "It's roleplay" is a lame cop-out is kinda funny to me to be honnest but I get that, for you and others, roleplay has no weight in balance even if it's for something so little.

That will be me then

You are of course correct that it doesn't matter when at level 8 you get +6 items.

At the moment I'm trying to do a single rogue and it is difficult for me. I can't get to level 4.

I've spent hundreds of hours trying but I'm stuck - I only need 3000 XP but I can't get it. When I get level 4 the game will be easy (probably)

And that is why I enjoy it