|
|
|
member
|
member
Joined: Jul 2014
|
Not exactly pertinent but I thought that wands were way too plentiful in D:OS EE. They were annoying clutter in my inventory. I liked that I had the option to use them but I think they should be far rarer. I guess thats what you get with a random loot drop system? Maybe I got lots of wands because I had two wizards? They both used staffs mostly so wands just weren't needed as much as I received them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2016
|
Not exactly pertinent but I thought that wands were way too plentiful in D:OS EE. They were annoying clutter in my inventory. I liked that I had the option to use them but I think they should be far rarer. I guess thats what you get with a random loot drop system? Maybe I got lots of wands because I had two wizards? They both used staffs mostly so wands just weren't needed as much as I received them. Yeah, in DOS 2, there are like 4 wands that are guaranteed drops in the first act, but that's because those serve to further the story this time around. Other than those, I've found two wands across my past... Four games? So your concerns have certainly been addressed, from my experience. =D
|
|
|
|
|
|
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Feb 2014
|
Removal of features is a slippery slope. If grenades are too powerful and easy to get, what about area of effect spells, best quality weapons, and so on? Taking this to a logical, but absurd, conclusion, just make every character have the same statistics and fight with fists only.
Grenades are a means of providing more options in the way players tackle battles. No player is forced to use them.
As we have not seen how Larian intend to implement Tactician mode (and possibly even higher difficulty modes?) I do not see any point in removing grenades at this stage of development.
More generally, I have now seen a number of different requests of the form:
I think this feature spoils the game.
Therefore I do not want it in my game.
Therefore no one should have it in their game.
If you want a harder game then simply eschew the relevant features. Don't collect grenades and the problem will solve itself. If you feel that Larian should design their games so that all levels have a much higher difficulty than at present then you should accept that the number of people buying the games in future will decline, so there will be less money for development leading to less polished games leading to fewer purchasers, a genuine vicious circle.
Someone must have spiked her senna pod drink!
|
|
|
|
|
|
stranger
|
|
stranger
Joined: Oct 2016
|
Why not make grenades more like grenades? In other words put a 1 round timer on them. Then they can be used strategically to drive an enemy out of an area or tactically by teleporting an enemy into an area where grenades are about to go off.
|
|
|
|
|
|
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2016
|
I would support the idea of grenades having a timer. That sounds like a really fun and not all that hard to implement mechanic.
Anyway for people complaining that certain things are OP, I haveto ask: Did you complete the game in honor mode? If you did then I'd say its fair to ask for more challenge (even if I think removing features is a terrible way to go about creating more challenge).
But if you did not complete the game in honor mode, then how can you really argue the game is too easy?
(also did you try simply playing it another way? after my first playthrough I decided to skip all the ranger stuff because it was so packed with stupid one shot skills.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
member
|
|
member
Joined: Jun 2012
|
Why not make grenades more like grenades? In other words put a 1 round timer on them. Then they can be used strategically to drive an enemy out of an area or tactically by teleporting an enemy into an area where grenades are about to go off. Interesting idea. It could be a funny mechanic in combination with other forms of terrain control.
Last edited by Baudolino05; 04/10/16 12:17 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2016
|
Enemie grenades would be turned into being useless most of the time.
Also probably no that easy to programm AI to dodge a blowing up grenade. AI often hits itself with grenade or uses fire attacks on a guy, who is immune to fire thanks to phoenix dive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2016
|
I don't see it all that hard to code.
A thrown grenade could have an immediate invisible area of effect thing that the AI can interact with. That would make the AI avoid areas where grenades are thrown.
You could even code some enemies to not avoid this particular effect based on their intelligence. When fighting the undead, or beasts they would not avoid the area of a thrown grenade, while intelligent humanoids might understand what a grenade it and try to avoid the impact zone.
|
|
|
|
|
|
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2016
|
Also:
Not all grenades would haveto be timed. A molotov coctail makes sense if it explodes at once since the flask would shatter on impact, but something with a fuse or detonator makes much more sense to have a delay on.
|
|
|
|
|
|
journeyman
|
|
OP
journeyman
Joined: Aug 2015
|
They should remove grenades altogether as a dumb feature that was added to cater to console kids in the EE, like most of EE changes (also it was so much easier than the original, wtf).
I seriously hate their whole design philosophy, which is basically "screw balance, let's not even pretend to do that. Let's instead put as many garbage features in as possible", and now with DOS2, "let's make skills even on level 1 as stupidly powerful as possible so kids go WOW". So you have infinity grenades, special arrows, scrolls, all also craftable so you that you can, if you like, never run out ever, armors that fit all characters so god forbid you'll "not get that cool loot!" etc.
A system so full of redundant garbage that it's basically impossible to balance, so they just go "fuck it, let's do this, let's not balance! You'll see, people are so retarded that if someone posts about this in the forum, other forum people will just say how you can avoid using unbalanced features! so we really don't have to balance shit!"
That said, timers on grenades won't work really. It's much more work than you think. You have to make sure AI runs away from the blast, but then grenades are way overpowered cuz you can basically manipulate the AI to lose their turns running away from useless grenades, so you have to have the AI calculate how dangerous each grenade is to see if they'd WANT to run away from it or just shoot their own fireballs etc. In short, it's complicated coding which I doubt they'll ever do.
It'll all just remain as it is. Unbalanced idiocy.
Last edited by Lightzy; 04/10/16 07:07 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Sep 2016
|
They should remove grenades altogether as a dumb feature that was added to cater to console kids in the EE, like most of EE changes (also it was so much easier than the original, wtf).
I seriously hate their whole design philosophy, which is basically "screw balance, let's not even pretend to do that. Let's instead put as many garbage features in as possible", and now with DOS2, "let's make skills even on level 1 as stupidly powerful as possible so kids go WOW". So you have infinity grenades, special arrows, scrolls, all also craftable so you that you can, if you like, never run out ever, armors that fit all characters so god forbid you'll "not get that cool loot!" etc.
A system so full of redundant garbage that it's basically impossible to balance, so they just go "fuck it, let's do this, let's not balance! You'll see, people are so retarded that if someone posts about this in the forum, other forum people will just say how you can avoid using unbalanced features! so we really don't have to balance shit!"
That said, timers on grenades won't work really. It's much more work than you think. You have to make sure AI runs away from the blast, but then grenades are way overpowered cuz you can basically manipulate the AI to lose their turns running away from useless grenades, so you have to have the AI calculate how dangerous each grenade is to see if they'd WANT to run away from it or just shoot their own fireballs etc. In short, it's complicated coding which I doubt they'll ever do.
It'll all just remain as it is. Unbalanced idiocy.
1) Classic -> Dual LoneWolf + GlassCannon = Min 16 Ap / turn & CC on everything 2) EE -> Grenades and Special Arrows and MORE POWAR! Each version had it's ways to break the game balance. But this is true of all RPGs. Give a player a lot of tools to build their character and be creative in combat tactics and you'll inevitably see balance broken via something. As long as difficulty can maintain some consistency till end game; it's good. Also, there's always the idea of simply ramping up enemies (i.e. Make them 3 levels ahead of you) and making an intelligent AI that learns/knows the same exploits you do and how to counter them. All good builds in RPGs reach god status eventually for the most part. As long as the journey is fun and one build doesn't feel exceedingly more powerful than the other, that's a good balance in it's own way Granted: They made warriors and stuff waaaaaay overpowered for EA right now
|
|
|
|
|
|
member
|
|
member
Joined: Sep 2016
|
All good builds in RPGs reach god status eventually for the most part. As long as the journey is fun and one build doesn't feel exceedingly more powerful than the other, that's a good balance in it's own way So very true. This is, in many RPGs and especially in this one, the main point. As to the OP. I've liked grenades since they added them. I do feel like they could have more skill/talent/stat etc. tie ins and I liked the slight bit of inaccuracy that was present in EE.
|
|
|
|
|
|
journeyman
|
|
OP
journeyman
Joined: Aug 2015
|
Yeah I guess inaccuracy and a timer would balance grenades a bit. Most important though is scarcity. Best is removal of course, and a tightening of the system.
But AI work for reacting properly to timed grenades is probably out of the question because that would be too much time to spend on a sensible feature
Last edited by Lightzy; 05/10/16 08:39 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
