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I think the efficiency would be neutral AP wise, if you would use it with 2 AP attacks (2-hand or Dual wield). It gives 50% bonus, so you would deal 150% damage at the cost of 3 AP, 150% AP costs. Can be worth if it the damage would be enough do kill an enemie and you would not have 4 AP for two attacks. But is it worth one trait point?

Regardless I still finde sneaking during fight in most cases pretty ridiculous.

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Anyway, Rage:

Originally Posted by sfzrx

So I was thinking, if it'd be a good idea to change Rage so it's restricted to melee only, and gives like a 40% more damage bonus like in DOS and at the cost of like, taking 40% more damage for the duration. So there is a pretty huge penalty even for warriors, and warriors would actually have to think about when to use the skill, instead of having it as a no brainer when elemental damage isn't present, kinda fits the berserker style of the skill anyway.


All of these changes seem like decent ones to make a more balanced skill than it is now.

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Originally Posted by Kalrakh
I think the efficiency would be neutral AP wise, if you would use it with 2 AP attacks (2-hand or Dual wield). It gives 50% bonus, so you would deal 150% damage at the cost of 3 AP, 150% AP costs. Can be worth if it the damage would be enough do kill an enemie and you would not have 4 AP for two attacks. But is it worth one trait point?

Regardless I still finde sneaking during fight in most cases pretty ridiculous.


I've found this to be true for regular attacks. One also gets a stronger opening attack, which in my opinion is the biggest reason to get it.

The other big way it helps out is that it synergizes with abilities, which have cooldowns. Being able to add 50% more damage for 1 AP to something you can only do once every 3 rounds, etc. allows you to spend less time doing weaker basic attacks.

Also, the 3 cost abilities and Source point cost abilities make Guerilla efficient when using them even w/o the cooldown consideration.

Because of this, I like the Guerilla talent.

Last edited by error3; 16/10/16 04:35 PM.
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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Limz
The poor guy missed the part where I said 'alone or devoid of context' ... oh well, kinda' expected.


Stop. Being. A. Fucking. Smarmy. Arrogant. Prick.



Nah, just calling you out when you're blatantly wrong or where it needs clarification. You most likely took offense at my somewhat terse post and I also expected you to keep your word and leave. I forgive you, we can move on.

Anyways, the point is addressed by Kalrahk. Efficiency is meaningless without proper context, it makes it hard to figure out the actual value of something - that's the danger of looking at something in isolation (which you fell right into).

If you want to a drop a 'meaning bomb' on me in this thread then all you needed to do here was to prove that there are too few points where sneaking is not worth it making guerilla far too niche.

Instead, you opted to do a link back to a mostly irrelevant (I am being generous here) post that really doesn't move the discussion forward at all.

We cool now?


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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by aj0413


Well, Rage supposedly stacks with backstabs and guerilla for extra damage


Literally posted in this very thread:

Originally Posted by error3
I just tested as a sanity check, and I can confirm this is 100% false. You cannot also crit on a Backstab.



Also, just a reminder that Guerrilla is AP-inefficient. Sneak costs 1 AP to use during combat, so the +50% damage modifier Guerrilla adds is only worth using over a regular attack (costing 1 or 2 AP) if you're entering a fight with a sneak attack, or are using a skill like Snipe or Mortal Blow which already have inherent massive bonuses to damage when sneaking.


I know you posted that: I was counter it with the fact that others have stated and tested otherwise. Don't look at me *shrug* I could care less. I'm neither defending it or not

Also, me and you have done the whole AP economy of guerilla back and forth many times. We've also done it on one handed vs dual wielding for rogues

You -> doesn't add enough damage and is only marginally useful on dual wielding

Me -> for players that sneak a lot in combat it becomes free extra damage cause guerilla isn't the focus on sneaking but a side benefit, thus no reason to not have it. And it price every turn

You -> why so much sneaking instead of attacking?

Me -> avoid detection and out maneuver AI

You -> they'll fix that

Me -> they will, but it should only make it so that someone must actually heavily invest in the damn stat to do what we currently can with one point in it

/semi-rant done

:P just didn't want to give ya the last word.

Also, Limz is kind of arrogant but I'm pretty sure he does it on purpose since he enjoys forum battles wink

All Hail The God Emperor Limz!!!

Rage really just shouldn't be so universally good. Honestly, it should be made to serve a niche and then left alone

Removing auto Crit from it and making a decent Crit mult. and Crit chance boost along with having it make the user very vulnerable is my proposal

Last edited by aj0413; 16/10/16 05:32 PM.
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