Originally Posted by Kilroy512512
Originally Posted by aj0413

Well, actually it's an Alpha and the point of all the feedback is that the devs plan to try different permutations of the game so the armor system might not even be there in the release version depending

There're in fact several threads discussing this in one form or another though


That would be a crying shame, and a strong argument against the benefits of acting on feedback... Magic armor in its current form is a really cool concept and something I haven't seen in any other pen and paper rpg style game. It would be a particular shame considering pretty much the only thing that needs to be changed to fix the current implementation is to alter the drop rates of magic armor equipment so that players have access to meaningful quantities of it earlier.

Why I like the current 3 bar system is that it is a system that is really easy to comprehend at a glance. I can look at any enemy currently and within seconds I know how to prioritize dealing with it and all I had to do was hover my mouse over the target.

Now, let's contrast that with conventional uses of armor/resistances and health. Almost ubiquitously you have a health bar that is clearly visible and if you want to know anything else about the target you need to dig through a menu at the very least. Once you have found the information you want, (which is usually a flat percentage or number by which damage of certain types is reduced) you then have to process that information and consider how to deal with it.

The net result is similar, they either have higher effective hp from mitigations or a larger pool, but one is drastically more user friendly than the other and also potentially adds extra neat features. (ex: preventing cc while active)

As a side note, this type of multilayered health is by no means a new thing. The first implementation of a similar system that I recall is the shield system in Halo 1 and, depending on how fast an loose you are with the definition of rpg, you could argue that Borderlands pioneered the crossover. With that in mind it isn't brand new tech, but it does stand to bring a lot to the table in the isometric rpg genre.


So let me address this in part, before I just woute myself from elsewhere:

The current system does add new things; no one is against that. But while the new system is user friendly at a glance, I don't think that makes it more fun. In fact, I'd say it drains away some of the fun from my perspective. It also destroys the importance of Loremaster and information management. Information is king in picking apart an enemy; being able to gain that info so easily is an issue.

as for everything else:

Now, then the armor system: It has issues and is currently heavily talked about.

The problems:
> Once armor is gone, a player can CC, due to 100% chance when armor is gone, enemies to death, thus making HP moot.
> Skills that restore armor require an enemy to play defensively to use and/or take attention away from being aggressive. Aggressive strategies are the most effective in D:OS games, so the AI breaking from this just weakens their tactics.
> The above points will eventually also apply to players, hopefully, with strong AI in the future
> Powerful tactics, abilities, PC builds, grenades and consumables, and/or terrain advantages make it easy to destroy armor (ie Magical armour mostly)
> Patience and tactics make it easy to divide and conquer enemies and, effectively, avoid planned group encounters or turn group combat into 1v1, 2v4, and so on.
> The current defensive combat abilities hardly impact anything and are very underwhelming compared to other abilities. Players don't feel stronger by using them
> It's easy to gear towards a specific armor type to either hinder/overwhelm enemies, you know about ahead of time.

Now, one suggested solution was to leave the armor system, but switch out the defensive abilities with the old ones (ie Bodybuilding/Willpower/Block). This raised issues by dividing players into camps of "RNG is bad" and "RNG is okay."

Personally, I liked the old system; I thought that it'd be fine to bring it back, into this one, under the new system. For a number of reasons. However, in respect of those who hate RNG, I offer this suggestion:

Armor types of various classifications (ie scale, leather, plate, cloth, ect...) will not only have different bonuses (ex dodge chance on leather) and/or armour defense types in varying values (ie physical = 100 & magical = 30) to differentiate them, but also be divided into sub groups concerning how much of a given attack type a specific armor would absorb.

For example:
A 'light' leather set would have a given value of magical and physical armor and would also have a set ratio of how much of an attack is absorbed by the armor and how much is let through to target vitality based off an absorption attribute (ex absorb = 40% -> Armour absorbs only 40% of damage)

This would give HP purpose again, allow players to strategically decide how important CC defense is vs damage taken, and create greater differentiation among armours; making each armour class and sub classes unique enough to make player gearing of PCs different among different kinds of playthroughs and builds.

This could also indirectly make the Vitality, Magic Armour, and Physical Armour abilities more appealing depending on how they evolve with the system. They could effect the ratios, for instance, or, at minimum, increasing the bonuses they give would also make them more relevant.

Some follow up points:
> Some have also suggested that Damage Mitigation from D:OS should make a return
> By allowing some damage through armour, characters can retain their CC invulnerability for longer and prepare defensive spells easier when they notice they're armour types are breaking
> This done effectively, permanently solved 100% CC chance after armour is completely gone, but maybe players would prefer that overall
> This is by no means a perfect solution and I welcome points of criticism or ways to improve on my suggestion (ex Do you think skills/ablities should be included or changed to account for my proposed system?)
> The above suggestion is a focused evolution of the current system, while placing more power in player decision making. Therefore, keeping the strategic deterministic values players, who dislike RNG, prefer


^ the above was my attempt to help along the evolution of the current armor system.

Now, preferably, I'd say just bring back the old defensive abilities and leave the armor system as is. BANG! You get the new system and I get the old one in one package. Now one might argue that would be too strong a defense against CC....my counter is that skills to lower resistances and armor come into play. AI has the same advantages. And the resistance values gained per ability point are lowered

EDIT:
also chaotic stupid is fun in its own way ;P sometimes theres no greater joy then messing with a DM then by acting outrageously chaotic for the lolz

Last edited by aj0413; 16/10/16 09:38 PM.