Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - Suggestions and Feedback The CC is over done to a ruining experience

As the game progresses I would expect the trend to continue of enemies getting better defenses. With that in mind, hard CC will start to be less of an issue from our side as well since only one or two enemies will be vulnerable to it at a time.

The real issue in my mind is whether or not bosses need something to aid them against CC. Currently I'm leaning towards not, but if they had a buff that made them immune to CC for one turn after getting CC'd I think that would be okay.

While the ability to CC everything in one or two turns should go away over time do to exponental increase defenses and linear increase in damage, it doesn't address the basic issues the armor system has in terms of making combat a resource management battle more than anything and the points I raised before concerning this.

While I can appreciate the point that being able to CC chain everything in one turn in group combat will/should be solved given enemy growth, that's not exactly the be all, end all of the issue concerning the armor system.

That's fine but then I think we need to come up with a clear and definable problem, otherwise this discussion can't go anywhere. Chain CC has pretty much been the main topic throughout the entire thread, either against the player or the npcs, and if that isn't the issue anymore then I'm not sure what is.

Recall our back and forth concerning the issue of 100% CC chance when armor is gone?

We went over it a bit a couple days ago.

Rather than rehash it, i think it'd be faster if you just clicked couple pages back *shrug*

i recall also getting you to appreciate my points raised.

The only other thing I see is the idea of enemies needing more variance in defenses but that needs its own topic, this one is about CC.

DOS1 &2 are CC; the game. Like another poster said, you don't fight the enemies, you fight the CC, and you fight it...with your own CC. It just needs to be removed or severely toned down. Making the enemies helpless for several turns or being helpless yourself is just bad game design. Physical and magical armor don't affect that; it's just a race to strip them so you can CC again. There shouldn't be any hard 2-3 turn disables; at that point you're just beating on the enemy like dummies or you're watching the game play itself if you're the one who got disabled.

It ends up being about the same topic since CC chaining is effected by defenses.

Recall my point that changing indivual enemy defenses would be more work and doesn't solve the issues of player defense once the AI is smarter.

Thus, the more general and easier solution is just to evolve the current defense mechanics

Cc needs to change, not defenses. Regardless of how defenses change, having every CC do the same thing isn't a good idea in any game.

CC effects should probably change so they're not different colors foing the same thing, but CC defense is also important.

Two vectors for solving both the same and individually related issues

I'm willing to give the new armor system a shot. I like the idea. Cc is unquestionably in need of changes.

Let's tackle the cc issue first and see how the armor works in the new system before we kill this fresh idea in the genre.

I don't want to get rid of the armor, but no matter what we do, it doesn't change the fact that once armor is gone we have 0 chance to resist anything. Same with the AI

*shrug* I've gone on about why I think this is an issue and offered to evolution of the current system that both keep th armor.

1) Just change the combat defensive abilities to the old ones, but keep armor system

2) Add absorption ratio to armor types, so a player can decide how much damage 'bleeds' through based of armor class and type

The second also simultaneously addresses the fact that everyone right now just throws on whatever has the biggest numbers instead of really differentiating armor choices.

I agree that one problem at a time should be tackled however. And addressing CC effects should probably be first.

Less hard CC would make the whole 'resource' managment style of fights less in your face and obtrusive. It'd also add more elements of strategy and partially solve the CC to win issues.

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Should mention: I do think a couple school should have some version of hard and soft CC both.

Having everything move to soft CC or only one school capable of hard CC at all would also be bad.

The cooldowns, AP cost, and memory cost should also be more aligned such that CC chains require some effort or a high memory character with high AP

I signed up here to share the same thought as the CC in the original was much the same. Combinations of CC spells will beat everything in the game (as it stands so far). Environment effects and CC spells need to be nerfed, simple as that. To make every play style viable, which I assume would be the goal of an RPG, you have to level the playing field. I see the same thing happening again where I want to play the game differently and to get a real challenge I have to actively avoid using most CC spells. It gets hard to resist the temptation when things get dicey. It's like a crutch you can always fall back on because it just does so much more damage than anything else.

The fact of the matter is with as little as 4 ap on a wizard or any spellcaster I can kill most enemies, especially when they take 40+ damage per tick and can get stunned just trying to move two feet. However, 4ap on a pure warrior or rogue? If I'm close enough and if I'm lucky.

More damage and effects should come from the actual spells and there should be less damage and status procs from the environment in battle. Traps would be a different story.

I think the problem is that CC has a 100% chance of success when the armor is gone.

I like the new system of D:OS2. I suggest that some armor recovers every turn. Skills that deal damage AND cause CC get a big cooldown or AP cost. There are "cheap" skills that do only CC, but you (or somebody else) need to make some damage to this target in this turn first. There may be skills that increase or decrease armor regeneration.

I have never played such a system so I have no idea if it works. I hope this might help to make it harder to perma CC enemies while keeping the general system and while keeping CC useful.

it only has 100% chance of success because the game hasn't gone long enough for us to get resistences. There are elemental resists on items, but they come later, which should help balance things out a bit. I still really would like to see CC changed like many of the posts in this thread suggest.

The very concept of this game is disables, CC's and whatever.
Remove them, nerf them, and you'll get another sh*tty Wasteland 2, just with swords and fireballs. The whole system goes down to sh*t, and D:OS becomes another meh-RPG combat-wise.
It has come up to this because of the new armor system, the old chance-to-resist system was actually neglecting 100% disables, and now it's just too simple to predict what to do, to mow down enemies off their feet and kick them in the liver till death.
It's also a problem because of the new AP system, which doesn't give any space in nerfing via AP-cost increase.
Disables should be nerfed a tiny bit, yes, but it's not them that are the core of the problem. It's the new "let's invent the wheel anew" concept with AP and armor.

P.S. I hate how you guys call all disables CC's. CC is crowd control, and definetily not all disables are mass-aoe-skills disabling crowds, you know.

I think some disables ought to be buffed for logical consistency. Cloroform puts a guy to sleep for 1 turn but god forbid if you attack that guy, they wake up instantly? Attacking someone under the effect of Cloroform definitely should not wake them up.

I agree on the crowd controls, essentially the only viable strategy is to Hail Strike, knockdown etc. the crap out of enemies and kick the shit out of them on the ground.

The core of the combat is elemental combos, not CC. And chance to resist didn't generally matter in DOS1; just electrify blood or water or create ice under your opponent; unless it's a boss they WILL be hard CC'ed over and over just for trying to move, because the "check" to be stunned or knocked down happens so frequently it doesn't matter what your resistances are unless they're close to 100%. It was OP then and it's OP now.

Furthermore most good turn based games I can think of don't have this abundance of hard CC. Neither XCOMs had it, nor did final fantasy tactics, nor did the turn based Ogre Battles. It trivializes the strategy.

Not familiar with FF:Tacticts, sorry not really into jRPGs, they are boring.
XCOM is not an RPG at all, yes the newer titles do have some RPG elements, but the principle of combat is entirely different. And btw XCOM:Apoc had insanely OPed gas grenades early on in the game, so you're wrong, there was CC.
Ogre Battles - what is that anyway, some indi trash? Sorry for being harsh here, but haven't ever heard of it, not speaking of playing, so don't even see a point in googling what that is.

Oh, and the point of elemental combos is to do _FREAKING_ crowd control, which _IS_ CC! Even blowing the heck a gas with fire is crowd control. So you are providing a point you on your own are controversing. Google the definition of "crowd" and "control" for starters.
Yeah, electrified water and ice were an easy cheesy combo, however you wouldn't be able to win more then a half battles on Tactician in OS1, without using them. That's the whole point of the game, holy crap, and you're complaining about it.

I dislike hard CC as well, and would much prefer that disables heavily limit your options, but you still have some choice. Like, knocked down characters could still crawl around or attack with extremely heavy disadvantages. But, considering the animations and balancing already done, I imagine hard CC is here to stay.

One way to tone down hard-cc would be to make them give decent bonuses. I'm not sure if this is the case already (as was in D:OS1), but being frozen could give you a boost in armor and resistance to slashing, for example. Knocked Down characters should be harder to hit with ranged attacks. That sort of thing. I don't know if that would make much of a difference, but it'd be start, and you'd have to think about how your CC synergizes with your whole party more.

Oh lord. You're doing a great job at discrediting yourself here. Firstly, I was referring to the Firaxis XCOMs (the well known and well received ones in general), which are Xccom EU/EW and XCOM 2; those are considered RPGs.

Secondly, you're an idiot if you think JRPGs are boring. Games are games, some are good and some are bad. FF Tactics is basically Game of Thrones with some pretty kickass combat.

And lol, indy trash. How edgy are you trying to be?

And FINALLY, no, elemental combos are not for CC; one of the most common ones was oil/fire/poison, which is just pure damage and a slow effect (which is soft cc). Smoke from fire+water obscures the targets within. Cursed surfaces inflict disease I believe, and I think there are blessed surfaces as well. I think you're confusing AOE with CC. Stuns and disables are CC; at least, that's generally how they're referred to on this board, and there are a lot of topics on it both here and on steam sooo...
Fire+oil/poison is an aoe attack. It doesn't prevent the enemy from taking action.

Only electricity/water combos and effects create hard CC. The problem is that they're easy to exploit and there are a lot of other non combo abilities that are stuns; petrify, knockdown, shock, frozen; these all work the same and can be chained and spammed together for nonstop lockdown.