Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - General Let's talk about durability

Just get rid of it.

I've been on the get rid of repair train entirely for a long time so no change there :P


However if the concern is mostly surrounding a cost associated with smashing chests/doors, the compromise solution that would make me happy is simply only make those things cause damage to the weapon. I believe Kilroy512512 suggested this back on the first page.

It seems a tad silly to me to have an entire mechanic dedicated to one specific action most players don't even do, but I can't really think of any decent way to impose a "cost" on bashing chests/doors open otherwise.

But I also think the concern is largely silly anyway when you can just save a few random weapons you find and use those to bash things open. Their gold value is so small you don't care that they lose durability. Also generic weapons still have high damage but lack the bonuses which give real value so you don't even care that you can't sell them.

explain why there needs to be a cost for smashing things open beyond it not being stealthy

Allow me to ask everybody a quick question: since I constantly see people wanting a repair system to "enhance immersion and roleplay", why do I never see anybody ever asking for a system where your characters have to expel (I'll try to put it in a non-vulgar way) their "biological waste" every X minutes, and if they don't, they end up with dirty laundry with the annexed debuffs?

Why, because that'd be boring, pointless and most importantly completely annoying, of course. As much as having to repair your gear in a game like this where there are alternative, disposable weapons at every corner and spellcasters who can easily troll fighters by breaking chests open with magic spells with no damage whatsoever is, all in the name of "immersion and roleplay" (?).

Yet, you can't deny that, realistically speaking, the characters should go to the john once in a while as we all do IRL. While we're at it, why don't we put a system wherein your characters have to regularly eat and drink? And after that, another system where putting in a full suit of plate armor takes about 15 real life minutes (which it does!), followed by another system where your characters get fatigued after 10 minutes of running around in armor and weapons + something like 200 kgs of gear in their inventories and then get blisters on their feet with an AP point reduction. Does that really sound like "immersive fun" to anybody in here?

The answer is: "What the heck have you been smoking?! And most importantly, where can I find some?! Of course it's not!"

Fun Fact #1: since immersion seems to be such a huge concern, you can carry literally tons of equipment in your magical dimensional bag of an inventory, chests and barrels bigger than your character included

Fun fact #2: having to repair my weapons and armor has never done anything to enhance my immersion in the game, but if I have Lohse speak to a dwarf inside for joy, I'm given a nice lute that, when played, causes Lohse to go kinda bonkers, in an exquisitely In Character way.

THAT is the immersion I find worthwile in a game, and it made me applaud at Larian's creativity for just implementing this small little scene!

I'd rather have the guys at Larian spend their time putting more scenes like that in the game, than having them invest time and energy in more pointless scripts for an equally pointless feature. Just saying.

I've often complained about the lack of toilets in video games. Indeed, when I did my overly ambitious "Castles of Cyrodiil" mod (I think it's safe to say it'll never get close to being finished) I spent ages trying to find some decent toilets to include.

And then there was the horror of discovering that the toilets in FO3 were actually used as drinking fountains. ew.

i.just. ok. listen. listen listen lseint

you hurt my head, your words.hurt myhead do painfulwordsphurtshurts
ok.ahem.


You are basing things on how they work poorly in Divinity, and not understanding why they exist. A system where objects can break is so that a player can feel immersed in that world where objects can break. If a bathroom system existed in a game, it would be to make a player feel immersed in a world where their character has to go to the bathroom. (The Sims, games that want to establish high levels of realism like Heavy Rain and Indigo Prophecy)

The focus of a role playing game is normally the combat, the characters, and the story. And in this sense Divinity is a normal RPG as those are its focuses. In most cases RPGs don't go too deeply into immersing you into a characters life, stopping at things like daily needs and minor body issues, because the game is focused on combat, story, and its characters in even amounts.

Durability is a mechanic that creates realism in a games combat, and it's purpose is immersive combat and an immersive world.

The need to use the bathroom is a mechanic that creates realism in a games characters, and it's purpose is an immersive world.

Hunger and thirst mechanics are sometimes used for balance of gameplay (such as in survival games, to stop the player from advancing too far without creating some stable form of sustenance first), and used to create realism in a games characters whether it is also being used for balance or not. It's purpose is an immersive world.

Time taken putting on armor and clothing is a mechanic that would create realism, with the purpose of immersing the player in the world. This is a deeper level of immersion, akin to needing the bathroom, and something I doubt you would ever see outside of a game made specifically for people to role play with each other, or possibly something hyper realistic like Mount & Blade. (although you can only change equipment out of combat in that game)

Stamina is a mechanic used in games to immerse the player in the world, and occasionally to balance combat (Dark Souls), though it is not common in turn based rpgs. It's purpose is immersion in both combat and the world.

Weight is a mechanic used to create realism and it's purpose is an immersive world.

I don't think I've ever seen something like blisters used as a mechanic in a game, although it might pop up in story driven Heavy Rain type games.

The thing with Lohse is just good storytelling, and any good storytelling will of course immerse the player in the world. The purpose of immersion mechanics is to back that storytelling up.


Divinity uses a lot of it's immersion mechanics poorly, because the developers also don't understand why they exist. Everyone just needs to understand why durability is ever in any game in the first place and then you can easily see the problems it has in Divinity.

That mechanic is instantly defeated the moment a wizard can bash a chest open by just casting magic at it, or the moment a warrior uses a standard weapon to do the same while then switching to his preferred weapon during combat. How immersive is it to carry 6 weapons in your inventory just to use them to bash things so that your nifty 150-200 damage 2h mace won't degrade as much?



Half wrong. The purpose behind hunger and thirst mechanics is to force you to strategize your trek through dangerous areas by considering matters like weight of the food and water you carry, memorizing food and water sources, and the like. Games like STALKER: SoC and Fallout NV did it surprisingly right, and at least NW is an rpg just like D:OS is.



You'll never see such a feature in a game, and that's because it would be horrendously boring, yet it's can't be denied that it would still create "immersion". That was my point all along.



Said immersion instantly turns into a sinking submarine the moment you carry 10 barrels of oil in your inventory because your strength stat allows you to. Yet apparently, equipment degradation supporters seem more concerned with pointing out the absence of realism and immersion in having indestructible equipment rather than the absence of realism in being able to carry 10 oil barrels inside a bag.



Yet, if "reality and immersion" are so much of a concern, why is nobody asking for blisters to be implemented?



That is correct. It is very good storytelling which creates immersion to very deep levels, and without bothering anyone with a tedious micromanagement mechanic.

For that matter, how is seeing a small paperdoll screen with an area of your body painted yellow going to immerse yourself into the game any further? For that matter, how is carrying 10 prongs and pincers going to immerse yourself? And always for that matter, how is a hammer with repair charges going to immerse yourself further into the game? We're talking about a big hunk of iron, are you telling me that in real life it would break after 10 uses? And then what? You stock on other hammers, or maybe implement a feature to repair your own repair hammer?

Regardless, you still haven't answered my question: why do I see equipment degradation supporters campaign so much for maintaining degradation, while not campaigning for other things that, while "enhancing immersion", would also spoil any fun whatsoever or - in the case of all the barrels you can seemingly carry in your inventory despite it violating the laws of physics - completely break immersion? Double standards, maybe?

There is the good kind of immersion and the bad kind of immersion. Is degradation the former and not the latter? Just by looking at all the people currently complaining, I would say "no".

stop using examples from games. we are talking about why these things exist not how they manifest in divinity.

you arent thinking, you arent trying to understand, you arent asking yourself why, please,stopwakeupjohnyoureworryingyourfamily

doctor hes inatrance he wontwake up whats wrong with himdoctor

shh quiet now itsok hes happier thisway

By the looks of it, it is you who isn't trying to understand my point or asking yourself why. Bashing at a keyboard is not going to change my original question: how is equipment degradation going to enhance the fun of playing a video game in any way? And is "immersion" really a good thing for said fun? And please don't answer by telling me that video games aren't supposed to be fun.

videogames are a medium, a medium is supposed to deliver something, not specifically fun.

srry 2 rain on ur sleepy hed but video gams dnt haf 2 b fun

Videogames are indeed a medium. One whose main purpose is having its user have fun. That's why a video game that isn't fun simply bombs. I don't play D:OS because I want to reflect on the philosophy of my existance, because for that there are the books of writers like Kant, Mann or Kafka.



Protip: you should argument your replies with reasoning and logic, not with personal attacks written with the grammar of a third grader. It usually doesn't do much to add weight to your argumentations.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/239030/

and we arent arguing. you said something, i talked to you, you argued with me, then i gave up. theres no point in arguing over this stuff, it doesnt lead to results. talk. be a person. think. isntsentiencenice

Oh right, Papers Please. That's an unfunny, tedious and boring game indeed.

No wait, what, it isn't. PP is quite fun and creative. A funny game that also happens to be packed with drama and difficult choices. A game that presents you said drama and difficult choices in an engaging, fun format.

However, lad, I'm still waiting for an answer to my original question:

Are "realism" and "immersion" really so important that they should be represented with a boring and tedious mechanic?

That was my point behind all that talk of bathroom needs, hunger, thirst, fatigue and blisters.

this is good. this is talking, not arguing. and no, they aren't that important, they shouldn't be boring and tedious. the one in divinity is done poorly and it comes off as boring and tedious where it should come off as fair.

I've been talking the whole time, lad. Had I been arguing, the moderators would have had to lock the thread in its entirety.

Now, second question:

what would the game be missing without the degrading equipment feature? Would the lack of said feature debase the game in any way?

We only really do that if the personal attacks are getting out of hand. But y'know.

Personally I would like to ban anyone who argues with me or looks at me funny but I'm not allowed. D:

pls stop lol youre so disturbing

the game would be missing an immersion mechanic, it being gone wouldnt really be a huge deal but it would have some effect, its part of a web of immersion mechanics that create the games experience and any one part could be removed without any really noticeable effect. it should be removed or fixed but removed is just a lazy option for sleepy people

Good, since we do agree on something, specifically that it should either be fixed or removed, there is another wee bit to consider:

About 1/3rd of the people on this forum resent the equipment degradation feature in its entirety, especially the way it is currently implemented.
Aboud 1/3rd of the people here resent the degradation feature but would be ok with a better improved version.
And lastly, the final third of the people here like the idea of degrading equipment, but they think that it is poorly implemented, clunky and weird.

Now, how to better implement equipment degradation in a way that pleases most people while not making it spoil the fun? I've read a lot of possible solutions, but each and everyone either has its faults (no offense to those who forwarded them, on the contrary, kudos to them for the attempt), isn't liked by enough people, or both of them.
Regardless of the angle at which we look at the picture, it looks to me that the equipment degradation feature is already causing more troubles than its effective worth.


Uhm...thanks, I guess?

Glad to hear Larian are considering removing it altogether.

If it's to stay, I agree with the suggestion (also seemingly endorsed by several others) that only weapons should have durability, and that it should only deplete if someone is trying to bash open treasure and the like. This way, it's basically a gold cost for forcing your way through - which seems a fair penalty.

I definitely don't like the battle-related 'wear and tear' tedium, and it seems everyone else agrees.

I've never been a fan of durability/repair mechanics, and would not be sad to see them go.

I agree that there should be the ability to bash open chests or break down doors.

I also agree that doing either of those two should come at some cost, since it is not the normal way of opening them.

If the cost of burning down a door is essentially "time and you may be noticed" then surely the same cost could apply to smashing down the door as well. It takes multiple hits (equivalent to the time it takes to burn it down) and makes a lot of noise (equivalent to people noticing the door on fire).

Likewise, the cost of bashing open a chest could be the same as the cost of burning the chest.

If durability/repair needs to stay in the game, then perhaps make it only possible at a stationary facility (a town's blacksmith shop, or at your eventual "home base"). So if something breaks while you are out adventuring, the "cost" is that you have to use something else until you get back to town/base, at which point everything can be repaired with a single click of the anvil, or whatever.

Even then, I'd still rather it be a very rare occurrence, as again, I find durability/repair to be an annoyance more than a value added.

Just my two cents.

Two suggestions:

1.Give lock picking some reward, like a small amount of experience.

2.Repairing a item could change the item's stats randomly. This mechanic should come with some savescum prevention.