Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - Suggestions and Feedback Change Loot distribu for a better Co op experience

I dunno, I can only speak for myself but I wouldn't hoard the loot just because I was there first. Even if it wasn't a matter of mutual cooperation, it would just seem a bit unfair, really: I know some people can get really competitive, but would any reasonable person really do so to the point of depriving people who they're supposedly cooperating with?

I don't deny I like the allure of "ooh shiny!" but not to the point where I'd consider spiting others. And if I found someone repeatedly doing that to me, I dare say I wouldn't be terribly impressed, nor inclined to continue playing alongside them. I would still assert that reasonable people don't need to be corralled into behaving reasonably.

Even if a group of four people all want what's best for the group, they can still have very different opinions on who will best-use each item. As-is the fastest looter makes that decision, and other players don't easily get to view the spoils even.

And often who gets the loot won't make a big-enough difference to hamper the party's progress anyway, but getting to see and equip the latest items is a big part of the fun. The system as-is rewards the fastest looter every time. Players can be a little bit selfish, have more fun, and still progress through the game just fine.

And then there's the convenience of the UI asking each player if they need an item or if they're just going to sell it. With a roll system I don't have to attempt to describe the stats to everyone in my party and try to sort out all the people who want the upgrade if they can easily see the stats and hit a button for that decision themselves.

I'm just saying many groups could realize benefits from a system that allowed for automated-rolls, and it's the kind of feature that is easy for uninterested groups to disable.

I think I should reiterate the extremely critical point that instanced loot is fundamentally incompatible with the entire "drop-in, drop out co-op" nature of the game. This is not a MMO game with a central server which holds all your character's information and loot status.

There is one host and 1-3 guest players joining, but all the information is saved on the host computer. That means that when the other players leave, all their instanced loot remains on their characters under the control of the host.

In other words because there is no central server, you can't really even create proper instanced loot in the first place. Implementing it would have to mean each player gets a crack at a container or corpse. All that would go back to the host computer's save file. It would completely and utterly break the entire loot balance of the game because there are now 2-4 times as many loot drops as a single-player gets.

Not to mention that Larian is not keen on implementing a system of loot which checks to see what you have points invested in and only drops loot of that kind. The reason they don't like that is that it makes it difficult or impossible to change to a different build if you want to try something else.

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That is an awful lot of difficulties which would need to be overcome in order to solve the problem of "I want to play this mostly co-operative game with players who insist on acting like griefing assholes in an MMO. Save me from myself".

Sorry Stabby I don't agree. I do agree with error3.

Part of the fun of this game is possibly finding treasure after your battles and searching. And gaining XP and leveling in balance with your team mates to where everyone feels they make a worthwhile contribution. Take that away and you remove a big psychological reward incentive.

I don't want to argue my point in circles but I still don't see why you say it is difficult or impossible to have loot distribution per individual. I'm not advocating 4x the loot or saying if one person finds a rare then everyone does also at the same time. And no it doesn't need to be items based on where you invested points. All I'm saying is a simple division of the spoils. What is the difference in economics or game balance if the same chest has either a 20% chance of giving 1-8 gold vs the chest having 5% chance for each player to get 1-8 gold or everyone has 20% to get 1-2 gold or whatever you see what I'm saying?
Like if a chest has a 4% chance to drop a cool item it could instead have a 1% to drop a cool item per player.

I'm sure there is a simple formula to do this. I doubt it's difficult or impossible as other similar games have it done that way. Also You don't need 4 people to raid the same chest. Example: chest opens everyone can see everything in it and what items are going to who. If any. With reduced chances some people may get nothing but they all always have a chance of something.

Slap an "everyone loots" button on it and have it all go into each persons inventory or how ever you wanna do it.

And if it all sounds too horrible have a game option you can toggle on or off that all loot is first come first serve.

As for the drop in/drop out mechanic I'm not sure why you say that is relevant. I thought once you are multi player you are locked in as a multiplayer game vs a solo game. I know I can only play the multi player when my buddy logs on and asks if I wanna join up at which point I can control which ever character assigned to me. Other than that I can't play that character. Maybe I'm missing the point entirely.

Read my post again and keep re-reading it until you understand what it means, because you clearly do not have a grasp of how D:OS 2 actually works.

Stabby I can reread 2+2=5 all day and it still won't be correct. The onus is on you, the person making the claim, to prove your point. All you did was argue it is fundamentally incompatible because of how information is stored, on the hosts computer. You did not elaborate as to why this fact would make a different loot distribution method "fundamentally incompatible". You need to state how those premise validate your conclusion. That leaves me to only guess as to the connection to make your case for you. Perhaps you could provide an example of what you believe would happen wrong if my suggested loot distribution were to try to be implemented? Are you saying that there is no point to have loot divided because the host could log on and steal it all back? Lol. I think it's safe to say that if my buddy asked me to play the game and I logged on and found my character was standing there missing all his gear, that game would not continue. The difference being items found by or given to you are generally accepted as yours. Where as what you lie, cheat or steal to gain, is not. If the game thinks that is going to be a fun dynamic I'll be curious to see how that works out but I think I can speak for most people that they would rather play solo than deal with a back stabbing partner. I think most people understand taking advantage of the host system storing player info to rob your team mates is a line not to be crossed.

Okay fine. You want the point-by-point, you get the point-by-point.




That's fine and all, but it has no bearing at all on instanced loot vs. uninstanced loot.




Instanced loot done properly requires a central persistent server keeping track of all character data. See Diablo 3 or Path of Exile or other MMO's.

No such central persistent server exists for D:OS, and no such persistent server is planned. All data is kept in the host save file, including all character data. There is no character data independent of the entire save file. There is no client-side save file. (Digression: At most the host can e-mail the clients a copy of the save file, but that only allows the client to play separately. There is no way to merge the client and host save files back into one. One can only be replaced with the other.)




That sentence contradicts itself.

The game is not set up for instanced loot. In the multiplayer, you and Bob can see a chest which has been unopened. (As an aside, the things in the chest were set on the loading of the map to make a roughly fair distribution of loot for a variety of potential playstyles.) You can watch Bob walk up to the chest and open it and remove things. Then the chest is empty. The host and the guest are playing the exact same instance of the game.

That's important. What you and the other people asking for "instanced loot" are really asking for is for each player to be playing a different instance in the same space. The game is not structurally designed for that.

Once again, all character data is kept in one place, the host save file. That host save file has one loot table generated on the start of the map. This game is specifically designed for "drop-in, drop-out" co-op. Drop-in, drop-out co-op means that you can start a game in single-player and then a person in multiplayer can join in and take control of another character in your party. That second player can then seamlessly leave the game and you get control of all the characters back.

You can also start a game in multiplayer as the host, and then other players leave and you as the host continue, getting control of the players back.

You see what's happening here? In D:OS and D:OS 2, there is no such thing as separate single-player and multiplayer. It's all the same game. In Path of Exile, multiple players hang out in town and walk around the camp. Two players can each leave and walk out into the world onto totally different dungeon instances at the same time and never see each other. If they want to work together, they need to do something special to be in the same party, and they get the same instance.

If loot equality were to be added into D:OS 1, so that chest gives each of 4 players a different drop, that is quadrupling the amount of loot because it's all the same game, all that information is still stored in the single place, the host save file. Once the other players leave, all that extra loot is still on the other player's characters, which are under the control of the host in single-player.

Even if the host is a nice guy, that does not solve the problem that you have increased the amount of loot drops by 2-4 times compared to the single-player, which breaks the game balance and the economy balance.


That should be enough info for you to figure it out because I have better things to do than to explain.

As well I should point out... that if everyone gets an item... but you don't get the item you need... but someone else in your party does.

Well, nothing was solved.

While instanced loot is impossible in the current game architecture, a roll system wouldn't necessarily be that hard. But it's still a decent amount of work done basically because you have crappy friends. Also, depending on who hosts the game, it might not do much at all. If you're the host, just open the game in single player and distribute loot in a more fair way. If your crappy friend is the host, then they'll probably just open up the game in single player and take what they want anyway.

And a roll system just makes a tiny dent in the effect of selfishness, and far from eliminates it. Your friends could still roll for items they don't need. And it might even lead to situations where you find something on a hard to find chest perfect for your character, but then your friends roll for it and take it from you, so it could end up screwing you in certain situations.

As the game progresses, and items gain requirements, this will help the problem. Will your friends really be that much of jerks that they'll take items that they literally can't even use but you could just to sell them?

I do think it could be nice to have items compare to everyone's equipped items on the chest screen so you don't have to check everyone's inventory to see if what they have is worse or better.

I dunno... That actually might not happen.

I'll be very surprised if they nix item requirements entirely. Will a 10 strength wizard really be able to wear high level plate armor with no penalty? I mean, I sort of like no requirements, which helps support the classless aspect of the game, but at a certain point there should be some kind of limitations.

Ah I see, sounds a lot more complicated than I realized. I like the idea of items having more requirements as the game progresses. Thanks all for the explanations.