Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - Suggestions and Feedback Duelist/Fencer Archetype?

Hi there, first time poster but this idea has been stuck in my head for a while now, and I was wondering what others thought of it.

Currently, finesse is the only stat that can increase a character's dodge stat directly. Finesse provides bonuses to damage on crossbows, bows, and daggers. Finesse is a stat for sneaky rogue types and rangers - characters who don't usually engage in direct melee combat.

Currently, all other melee weapons get their damage boosted by strength, which does not affect dodge chance, but instead boosts physical armor, making the character tankier.

As it currently stands, there is no optimal way to create a character that can 'duel', so to speak. That is to use a melee weapon that isn't a dagger, do damage, and focus on dodging instead of wearing heavier armor to mitigate damage.

If you want to fight in melee, you pretty much have to have high strength, and to that end, you might as well wear heavy armor, since you're not going to have the points to dodge. Of course, you could also boost CON as a secondary stat, but that matches more of a barbarian archetype.

I would incorporate a talent that allows a character to use either finesse or strength for all other melee weapons, depending on which is highest. This sort of solution is kind of ham-fisted, but I feel like the game is missing something for me, since I'd really like to play a fencer type of character.

Thanks for reading.

I don't think a dodge-tank is all that feasible in these games. Even though a rogue would benefit from high FIN for both attack damage and dodging, the dodge chance is still so low that it can't be relied on. In fairness, it would be tough to balance a character who dodges half the attacks aimed at them.

In my experience, dodge seems to serve better as an attack deterrent. The AI seems to prefer aiming at people they're more likely to hit.

Dodge doesn't really matter given the amount of environmental effects in each fight.

Dodge tank worked great in Never-winter. Fencer idea is cute, however current status of combat is so twisted that a defense skill was required change to plain pain reflection.
Why?
Almost all attacks are AOE spells or Pokemon-like AOE skills. Then fallows environmental effects and their chain reactions. Blockable / dodge-able attacks by a real weapon do not happens in this game anymore.

My rogue tank in D:OS1 was pretty tough, most attacks he either dodged or blocked, hardly getting every successfully hit, still dealing tons of damage with his boosted legendary dagger. Together with stun immunity he was dancing in the rain.

But so far there is no block chance, that part falls apart.

But anyway you forgot one finesse weapon: spear. But a one-handed finesse weapon different of dagger is really missing.

Yes but that is because everyone is a dodge tank in Neverwinter essentially.

Armor in neverwinter increases the chance your opponent would miss.

Dodge in neverwinter increases the chance your opponent would miss.

It just shifted the source.

Well dodge tank was based around Uncanny dodge skill. Which required light Armour to work properly. It is not just shifted source, its completely different build, with different skills and equipment.

DOS unfortunately do not have any connection between armor and chance to hit or at least solid armor mitigation ... . I am guit sad from current system.
I wish bodybuilding+willpower come back. Add reflex saving throw connected to dex. So there you have 3 saving throws based on 3 main stats. Then add a point to saving throw per 3 points in connected main stats. This allows anyone boost any saving throw but its expected that an massive orc with high strength would be quite resistant to a bodybuilding spells.
Then remove 95% all AOE skills / spells. Also remove auto bleed, let bleed only by skill or crit hits made by two handed weapons. Leaking blood should be connected to bleed status. No bleed status no blood on the floor.

All those things shifts combat from magic spam. Then fencer could come back.

Curent system where you spam AOE to strip armor whatever oponent is then cc to death, that is dumb.

Then there is, of course, monks who gain "The ability to dodge" the more wisdom and dexterity they have so long as they remain unarmored.

There is also Duelist who has the ability to gain extra armor... err "ability to dodge" equal to their intelligence bonus and dexterity bonus so long as they are in light armor (and to a limit of their armor allowance)

Then there are normal people who get a "abiltiy to dodge" according to their dexterity bonus to a limit to their armor allowance.

Yada yada, it all goes back to the same source. That is how they did it.

That is why a "Dodge tank" in Divinity OS 2... would be DRASTICALLY different then in dungeons and dragons.

Dungeons and dragons just shifted the source of your armor around... So... instead of say...

Platemail: 9ac, 2dex... so 11...

You had a monk who might have 4 dex, 4 wisdom: so 8

Or a Duelist who had: 4 armor, 4 int, 4 dex: so 12

I think duelist used skill Parry. Not Attribute Int. Talking about 2.5 rules.
Also there is an Epic feat for soak dmg. Like absorb 1dmg from every hit.
Also there are Natural AC which stack and Deflection AC bonus which doesn't.

So options how to make a build a character or how to take down an opponent is more.
Say that there is one dodge number which is the only source is kind a plain.

Anyway, AD&D managed to introduce weapon combat, parry, backstab, AOE skills, AOE spells, cc, even AOE cc all in one package but avoid overwhelming overload like DOS.

Everyone used Parry, and Parry was a unique system to that game and none of the others.

I don't believe the duelist got a significant parry bonus in neverwinter.



Probably not an epic feat, at least not the way you wrote it... because that would be pretty dang near useless.



There are tons, but I wanted to stick with what each class gets inherently as opposed to magic items (or in rare cases, race bonus)



That isn't because it is less complicated or particularly well written.

It is because ADnD has everything written out for you with paragraphs and paragraphs of explanations, break downs, and examples.

You don't have to learn anything on the fly in adnd.

Anyone could use Parry right. But if you dont have enough points in Parry skill then you will get beaten like never before
Feat for soak dmg is available for 20+ level ( which are often considered as Epic levels)

Readable rules -
That is maybe a biggest think. It looks to me that Larians rely on "secret formula". The term secret formula they used in explanation of DOS attack and defense system.

Current twisted status is most probably result of a secret formula system.
Maby Larians should start to use an open wiki to list all, I mean ALL rules. In Kickstart update video there is a bunch of people loafing all day long or browsing internet, so some of these would get a dedicated task write down precise rule set and develop Archetyp builds and combat cases. All this on public wiki. (maby this forum will work too)
When you look at the program, thousand hours are invested to the graphic rendering, thousends hours are invested to music, thousands hours are invested to texts. But combat rule-set? What is purpose to spend 4 people for 6 months developing a graphical cute system for contact weapon fight when this game combat exclusively use AOE spam and elemental floor effects so no one use a weapon fight ?

Maybe dodge also applies to surfaces? That is, you are nimble enough to step in the one spot where the floor isn't on fire. Or it simply reduces the damage of surfaces slightly? Would give rogues a bit more freedom to run around without depending entirely on (the fairly broken) levitate skill.

I don't think a dodge tank will be viable in D:OS 2, unless you also invested in con and just generally weren't a damage character. Even with 30 Dex and the duel-wielding parry talent, that's only 30% dodge, 20% with a much more reliable and versatile defense of a shield. Given you can't dodge spells, dodge is pretty limited in its usefulness. Maybe if they did something like DND5e, where dodging spells usually halves the damage, dodge would be more reliable. Perhaps they could even make that a talent like Savage Sortliege.