Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - General Guerilla + attack vs flurry for rogue?

I'm wondering whether its actually worth taking the guerilla talent when talking about how much damage it does compared to just using flurry on your target. Yes i know the other benefits sneaking has but i like maxing theivery on my rogues rather than sneaking.

Never use Guerrilla. Guerrilla is incredibly situational to the point where it might as well not be in the game. It's a waste of a precious Talent point which you could spend better on so many other things.

Yeah there are lots of good talents around, one of my favourites is Mnemonic, because 3 extra mem points are just fantastic.

It looks like a waste atm because we have very limited talent point and also source point.

But when we can start using more source spell, Mortal Blow with Guerilla will probably destroy the game if it isn't so limited. Current use for it is around "Sneak-snipe" only but guerilla is one of the few "Damage boost" talent anyway so any high-burst ranger build will have to get it in the end. I guess that's why the number is only 25% compared to the outdated 50% that shows it was nerfed.

But as mentioned, don't bother with it yet as we have very limtied points and stuffs like Warlord/The Pawn are much better as it allow for more killing streak or versatiltiy. Plain stat boost talent feels like a total waste as they don't really add anything new to your character that is worth losing such an expensive point to so Guerilla will likely be picked up around level 10+ by a ranger or a Mortal Blow user.

If Guerrilla is only worth taking for synergy with one or two skills, then is is not worth taking instead of many other better Talents. If the problem is that all the Talents are bad, that should be fixed.

Yeah its kinda crap on paper i just wondered if someone could come up with better numbers, only advantage i see its using spells like throw dust and chloroform whilst sneaking though invis does that much better. I made a sneak + guerilla rogue barely work in divinity EE and want it to work in 2 with sneaking buffs present (and the removal of having to get the speedcreeper talent). It just feels that rogues have such a hard time spending talents early on since backstabber is a must.

The main issue with Guerilla was, that it was to easy to abuse it with sneaking during fight. A.I. can't handle 'going into sneak mode', therefore Guerilla gave damage boost while sneak made you untargetable.

Beause of the broken synergy it had to be nerfed to death as it seems.

This is baloney.

Back on the good old days of 1 AP single-handed attacks and* +50% Guerrilla, at BEST, at BEST you were breaking even, doing 1.5 times the damage of a normal (dual-wielding) attack for 1.5 times the AP cost of a normal attack. It was not, at all, in any way, OP. If anything, it was underpowered. As a reminder, Talents cost a Talent point, so they should be more worthwhile and beneficial than NOT taking the Talent.

If the problem was the AI not turning around, that is fixed with improving the AI, not destroying the Talent but leaving it standing as a hollow pointless shell like the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.



* (bad example as even then single-handed attacks were badly inefficient with Guerrilla)

Yes, because Guerilla worked only with auto-attacks and not with skills out of sneaking... Also I did not say the guerilla bonus alone was broken by itself, it was the easily abusable synergy.

I don't know how the new AI acts, but it was nerfed when there was the old AI, so different time. Also it was never my decision, this kind of nerf, I'm just guessing the reasoning.

That just goes back to what I said about if a Talent is only good for use with 1-2 skills, it's not useful enough to keep in the game.




Nonsense. Did you not read what I said? IT DIDN'T ADD ANY ADDITIONAL DAMAGE/AP. It was no different than attacking 1.5 times regularly.

You have to consider that this kind of multiplier is NOT a base multiplier. It's a "Final Multiplier" which is one of the strongest thing to stack in the game and will always be strong when you have enough synergy to stick with it.

What are you gonna get? Morning Person?... Extra stat talents? Majority of them really sucks and you can easily play without them because they really just lack versatility or doesn't add anything new to a certain direction you want.

At least Guerilla, when you start stacking so much damage that you are dealing 400 per crit, that Guerilla will add 100 more damage to a preempt which is huge.

Don't just balance talent around level 1-9. When you start getting 3 or 4 talent points, synergy starts to become an issue and even a worthless looking talent can become op.

It does add damage. If you use sneak to hide from enemies and therefore be unattackable, Guerilla will increase the gain, because you will be able to hit even harder than you would be able to do using this tactic anyway. That is the meaning of synergy between Guerilla and Sneak abuse.

But seems pointless to argue more with you here, because you are focusing to hard on the 1,5x concept.

Guerilla-Sniper is probably the best lone wolf build to abuse since you can actually go all-out guerilla tactic.

Guerilla enhanced attack to start the fight, kill something, flee. Repeat until they all die just like the name suggests.

That is more of an exploit then proof of purchase.

That's an issue which should be handled with AI improvements, not damage nerfs.

I think you're vastly overselling the value and effectiveness of Sneak. It can be broken if the AI decides to look around. If the AI decides to attack another party member, you can be spotted inadvertently. If the battle produces surfaces or AoE's, that can force you to move and lose the chance to sneak-attack. If the AI doesn't see you, and decides to attack another party member, they can move, and so you'll either have to break Sneak and lose the Guerrilla bonus, spend extra AP moving behind the target anyway (negating the bonus damage per AP), or break sneak, move and enter sneak, costing another AP again. I'll have to test to see if Sneak gets broken if you get hit by an AoE, I don't remember. There are many ways for the perfect plan of "Sneak at the end of turn and get free damage" to fail.




In my opinion, if a player wants to do the same Snipe + Flee over and over again for every battle in the game, that's fine. They're only going to be taking away all the fun from themselves and boring themselves to death.

And if necessary, that exploit can be fixed too. Maybe something like "if all party members leave a certain radius of an enemy encounter, their health and armor could be restored to full", so as soon as Snipe + Guerrilla fails to one-shot an enemy, the snipe + flee tactic fails to work. That's just a possible example.

Everyone definition of fun doesn't follow the same guideline and 100% lonewolf clear is one of the hardest accomplishment in the game especially when you consider that it doesn't work against bosses, forcing you to change your entire skill set and plan when it's down to a 1 v 1.

Guerilla tactic is a legit strat in a real world to thin out a herd and win with lower number. Why wouldn't it be a legit strat in Divinity now that has a bunch of logic-based strat like using environment effect? Not everything is an exploit just because one side figured out how effective they can be. If it was not intended and indeed an exploit, Larian wouldn't remove that 1 source Point cost from Sneak which allowed the strat to work at every encounter.

I said that I thought it was fine, but that if it was a problem (or rather, if Larian considered it a problem), they could do something about it.

Also I think you confused Sneak with Walk in Shadows, as Sneak never had a Source point cost, the invisibility skill Walk in Shadows did (and was useless because of it).

Guerilla need work from sneak AND invis. Same as Mortal Blow does.
Also Guerila should work for melee only. Like sudden jump on the back, you can deal with the oponent pretty badly.
Shooting someone with an extra bonus doesnt have a sense. When you get shot by arrow, you are shot. There is no fallow up like in melle. It doesnt matter if you see the person or not.

I have been testing Guerilla and it's actually weird to use with some condition.

For example, it does work with Invis. However, to trigger it, you have to go into actual stealth while Invis is active before you attack. If you don't, it won't count and you will just get to do a pre empt without a skill bonus.

Also, it doesn't synergize with skill so don't expect to use it with Snipe

But while doing this, I messed around and found out that Guerilla is still something a preempt attacker should get especially with crossbow. I thought Sneak-Rage snipe was the strongest preempt in the game but it's actually double-shot pre empt with Guerilla, not counting mortal blow until they show us what the source point changes will be like.

For example, my Houndmaster at level 4 on Ifan (This is the save I downloaded to give him Guerilla right away) does around 28-32 and snipe does around 32-37

A preemp snipe with sneak will deal 64-74, Let's say I shoot twice on my turn with 6 AP, then I will deal another 56-64 on the start for a total of 120 - 138

However a prempt doubleshot with Guerilla will do 34-40 (guerilla bonus damage on first shot) + 28-32 (delayed projectile shot) for a total of 62-72 to a sneak snipe 64-74 (5 ap) for a total of 128-146 damage. The difference might look small but considering that Houndmaster has a base crit of 150%, that 8 damage difference will become 12 damage which is quite a lot at level 4. Add the crit bonus to the early shots along with other buffs like Elven Racial and high ground bonus and you can see how easy it is to overkill before you flee anything not a boss where a tiny 8 damage will become 20 at level 4. You will also have enough AP to press flee afterward.

This will steps into the real of broken if you learn how to triple-shot (2 guerilla ranger) or even quad shot (extremely hard to pull off without save scumming compared to double shot or triple shot so this is not recommended). You can also just do the Snipe+Ally shot pre empt (2 rangers, guerilla on the one not using snipe) for an easy preempt. I do like how this add some execution difficulty and planning to a stronger preemp strike and newbie can stick to Snipe-preempt but if it makes the game too hard to balance then they can go ahead and fix that.

For dual knives + Guerilla, I will have to say they get the lower-end of the stick as they don't really have much talent that work with their build to begin with. Guerilla is only useful if you are the pre-empt attacker for the team which is no where near as powerful as ranger Pre-empt.

The issue at this point is not with Guerilla but with how bad majority of the talents are that even crappy talents like "Mnemonic" looks useful because there's nothing else to pick for min-maxing or utility purpose.

I just did a solo Archer playthrough and I took Guerilla. 25% is worth it.

However I was going to be sneaking anyway as with one player you have to. For longer (tougher) fights it gets boring though. Snipe has such a long cooldown you might be better off with Warlord.

Most likely I did more damage overall with 2nd turn rage + marksmans fang than sneak + snipe.

I do wish enemies would look around a bit more. Even the worm at the end doesn't seem to bother any more. There is no fight in this game that do don't win with a solo Archer (as long as you don't die in the first round). 24 Initiative, sneak, you win.