Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - Suggestions and Feedback Items diversity

After completing act 1, what I can say is that the game offer a lot of ways to build your character, the downside of this is that there aren't a tremendous amount of blue/purple/unique items all together to build your characters the way you'll want them to be played.

For instance, when I was in the cavern with the wells, creature giving you an item in exchange of money, I've figured that depending on the amount of money given through your 4 characters, the items given would vary....sequence that I've posted in another thread...

But that purple belt +WIT +INT, I would have never been able to buy that belt or find it somewhere else and it isn't random looting.

Number of items that feels too precise to a specific build occurs too often....and sometimes may not have any use for the party members.... one of those belts was a +2 STR and +2 Huntsman....no if you play Huntsman, you want +2 FIN not +2 STR so how come the belt wasn't properly built.....

Good spear that does nice damage found at the shop for +3 INT ....or staff with + FIN...sometimes the items just doesn't feel right....because it is too specific to unconventional characters

So I would suggest to bring more diversity and maybe rethink back those weird items with definitively wrong stats vs the item at hand....

Also on an additional note, at lvl 7, the requirement of items that would be used for a specific user which requires 11 STR/FIN or INT...is kind of a low bargain... should require 13-14...

Character build so far are more favorable into building an unspecialized character (like in the other thread, i've talked about the Combat attributes) in this thread, the same goes to the general attributes. They don't seem to gain a lot for specializing and therefor suggest that it is better to put your points into attributes that are useful no matter the type of character you'll be playing such WIT/CON/MEM and then using item bonuses to unlock what you need to unlock.....because putting 16 points into STR for instance doesn't unlock you better weapons for your warrior....

Additional though, 2 hand staff should give a better Combat Abilities bonuses.
As a mage usually tend to get stronger, he usually use a 2 hand staff because the bonuses to pyrotechnics or whatever is bigger than the bonus from a setup Wand+Shield.

So far, this haven't been the case, they have equivalent bonuses, so therefor rather use the shield for better protection than a 2 hand staff where I shouldnt be doing any close combat with

Basically, any setup 2-hand weapon should have bigger bonuses than a setup 1 hand because it should have the bonuses equivalent of 2 items minus the possibility of using a defensive item such a shield...

So you don't understand, that the item attributes are randomized? Only exception are uniques.

It's an issue I addressed long time ago, that item attributes are too randomized. If you find some rare item it often turns out to be disappointing just because the benefits offer no use at all in their composition. Fin-weapons should not possibly offer str or int, it makes just no sense.

But I guess it is true, that two handed weapons should yield better benefits than single hand items.

I'm not too sure if the item's are randomized....

Read my 4th post in this and see for yourself. And remember that I could replicate this 100% of the time.

http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=602965#Post602965

Because there is a mechanic against save scumming, so the results are fixed after a reload if I'm not mistaken.

You could try for yourself if you have a savegame close to that wells....

Doesnt feel like randomize items because using precise sequence i would get specific items and if i would change the sequence i would get another bonus....ans that bonus would always be the same using the same sequence.....

So if i would give money using option 1-3-1-3 i knew what i would get everytime
If i would use option 3-3-3-3, i would get different items with different stats but always those items with those stats replicating that exact sequence....

If it was like you said, saved into the game....then i would always get the same blue or purple belt no matter which sequence i would choose....

At this point, it feels hardcoded, not randomize

Maybe it's just the well that feels that way. You need to understand that pseudo random is not random. Nothing in gaming is random. A coin flip is random, but there are only 2 outcomes. So you get either heads or tails...maybe it doesn't "feel" random, but that's because your sample space is only 2 points.

Here I will copy paste the sequence from the well for better understanding....I'm not talking about throwing up in there a flip coin and getting tail 5 times in a row....I've done this test for 45 minutes and I would always get the exact same item for each sequence:

If I would start the sequence with a 3, I would always get a crappy ring.
If I would start the sequence with a 2-2, using a 3 after that would always give me a crappy ring...

All that to say, this is really not random loot given and the unidentified item stats are always the same behind it, it's not randomize on the item given, it's already hardcoded in the game...

I haven't done all but I was curious to see....so anyway so far (c = crappy, 1 is automatic crappy, 2 = blue item and 3 = purple):

1c - 3 Belt MEM Hydro - 1c - 1c
1c - 3 Belt MEM Hydro - 1c - 2 Ring MEM Sneaking
1c - 3 Belt MEM Hydro - 1c - 3c
1c - 3 Belt MEM Hydro - 2 Ring CON - 1c
1c - 3 Belt MEM Hydro - 2 Ring CON - 2 Belt MEM
1c - 3 Belt MEM Hydro - 2 Ring CON - 3c
1c - 3 Belt MEM Hydro - 3c - 1c
1c - 3 Belt MEM Hydro - 3c - 2 Ring INT
1c - 3 Belt MEM Hydro - 3c - 3c

2 Ring MEM Thief - 3 Belt STR Hunt - 1c - 1c
2 Ring MEM Thief - 3 Belt STR Hunt - 1c - 2 STR Sneak
2 Ring MEM Thief - 3 Belt STR Hunt - 1c - 3c
2 Ring MEM Thief - 3 Belt STR Hunt - 2 Belt WIT Sneak - 1c
2 Ring MEM Thief - 3 Belt STR Hunt - 2 Belt WIT Sneak - 2 Belt STR Sneak
2 Ring MEM Thief - 3 Belt STR Hunt - 2 Belt WIT Sneak - 3c
2 Ring MEM Thief - 3 Belt STR Hunt - 3c - 1c
2 Ring MEM Thief - 3 Belt STR Hunt - 3c - 2 Belt STR
2 Ring MEM Thief - 3 Belt STR Hunt - 3c - 3c

3c - 3 Belt STR Hydro - 1c - 1c
3c - 3 Belt STR Hydro - 1c - 2 Ring +2 INT
3c - 3 Belt STR Hydro - 1c - 3c
3c - 3 Belt STR Hydro - 2 Ring MEM HP - 1c
3c - 3 Belt STR Hydro - 2 Ring MEM HP - 2 Belt WITS
3c - 3 Belt STR Hydro - 2 Ring MEM HP - 3c
3c - 3 Belt STR Hydro - 3c - 1c
3c - 3 Belt STR Hydro - 3c - 2 Belt FIN Sneak
3c - 3 Belt STR Hydro - 3c - 3 STR MEM Sneak

Now what you guys can do, if you want to see for yourself is get to that well in a game where it has never been done and take your characters one by one and pay the amount of money from that sequence to see if you get the same outcomes as I did.....well unless they go change the sequence with a patch to prove me wrong...lmao

Maybe we could argue that this is a specific place and the rest of the world is randomize items.....but why get into all this trouble to create a sequence that will give you different items if you can simply launch your "random item/stats generator"....

Now imagine if they "hard coded" these outcomes for a few more sequences. Then you'd have MANY more combinations, and instead of spending 45 minutes reloading the game, you'd spend 3 hours, and so on.

I don't know why they made the well this way, or why it matters.

At the well you do get different stuff for different sequences, but if you do the same sequence you get same stuff.

To avoid save scumming I think Larian is setting the items at an earlier point. For instance, the items each character get from well is not set when interacting with the well, but it might be set when you first enter the maze.

It might very well be a random item, that is set in the beginning of the game for all we know. So it is worth a few minutes to find which sequence gives best stuff, but it is better that it isn't totally random because you could spend 5 hours trying to get best stuff instead of 45 minutes.

Although with this anti-save scumming feature, I wonder how they implement 'luck charm', is that not even working now. In DOS2 I have never seen the 'lucky find' message even at 'luck charm = 6' which I got all the time in DOS1.

Loot is random (except uniques), but that randomness is determined early on, maybe at gamestart as sam says. But if you start a new game and go to that well, you should get totally different loot (but you'll always get the same items when reloading saves within that one playthrough).

As far as loot diversity, that should improve as the game develops, but I won't be terribly surprised if it remains fairly uninspired. Something I plan on fixing or improving upon early on though (already working on a loot mod, actually, transferring stuff I did for Epic Encounters to the DOS2 system :P)

I really hope they implement a way to make certain bonuses mutually exclusive (not really possible with how the loot system is currently designed). Stuff like +DW and single handed on one item obviously shouldn't appear. Not sure if that can happen, but I think I've seen something like that.

Lots of items will be kind of weird, like your +2 huntsman and +2 strength item. Theoretically that's decent on battlemage kind of build that might throw a fireball from high ground and get the bonus from huntsman, and then charge in and smack some people and benefit from the strength, but that's pretty niche. Given the classless nature though, it's hard to decide that certain combinations should be more or less common. Hybrids should have their chance at loot as well. In general, I find there's enough loot that isn't weird and niche that the weirder items are fine.

@sam381: Lucky charm still works. It's fairly uncommon (5% chance to activate on looting a container), and kind of mediocre, but it still happens. Not sure if it says "lucky find!" but it should make a sound and show you a four leaf clover.

The problem is, if a purple item is loot and weird, it puts you of far more, than if green item it good. ^^

Vivalafai, I don't know either but what information you get from there is how the game acts and how they though of programming the game. It gives you some sort of insight...well of course unless this something completely apart from the rest of the game behavior....maybe something made early on in the game stage because a random generator wasn't ready yet and they forgot to change it to use the generator....but that would be surprising to waste time creating combination of loots....so it really gives me the idea that every item is hardcoded and their location not so random...

Sam381, I doubt that they would be crazy enough to randomize items when entering the cave and then create a sequence for different looting on the well.

Looting inside barrels seems to be random, but we are talking about lower items...money and crafting parts...

The purple and blue items, I'm not so sure about their randomness...unless like you said, they randomize the whole game when creating the map....but that would be an awful lots of randomness to begin with....very unorthodox...

So this is why I'm questioning if there is really an anti-save scrumming feature as you describe or any randomness on the higher end items for that matter...

Baardvark, your developing your own mod for the game already?! ... the game isn't even finished yet! lol....but nice to see there are people that much interested in the game potential...because it has good ones...

As for the items, well you don't get a lot of options in town, there ain't more than 1 purple belt for instance at a vendor...and not for every item type...

But who knows what we will get in act 2 for that matter, so it might takes off from there....

Like said in another post, I'm giving feedback to what has been giving to me...

XCOM does the same 'fixing' every possible move at the start of a move, same move will always give you the same outcome.

In DOS2 only one reload can result in different outcomes.

I looked in the treasuretable and they do have something in there for Luck 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. Basically each level is supposed to give more stuff like level 1 is just gold, 2 = goldbig, 3 = randomlootsuper, precious, goldbig, 4 = weaponmagic, armormagic, ringamuletbeltmagic, etc.

Sorry about technical jargon, I learned some of the ways to mod DOS1 and some stuff seems the same in DOS2. I haven't played around with treasuretable in DOS2 but have tweaked itemcombos to fix some crafting stuff.

But back to the point, even though I see the luck stuff in treasuretable I don't think it is implemented because even with luck 10 in a run through, I didn't see clover one time. And didn't get any magic items in normal containers (like barrels and crates, obviously chests have magic though), DOS1 I got magic items frequently (maybe 20%) with high luck.

I think DOS1 EE worked correctly, where you couldn't save scum containers but Luck still worked. DOS2 still stops save scum but Luck appears not to work.

In my play trough I had lucky charms again and again, not that often, but it surely worked. But it a short notice, easily overlooked and I often had onl 1 or 2 points in it.

Lucky charm 5 in DOS1 was perhaps 8 or 10% chance increase if I remember correctly.

I'll do some more testing after next patch to see if LUCK is working. But I definitely did not see any 'clover' pop out even always using player with luck 6 to open every container, and can't remember any magic items in basic containers.

I haven't done any save scumming, except at the well, so maybe I'll test that too on chests and such to see what happens.

But my original point in this thread was that with the well it seems if it gives random loot, it doesn't not happen at the moment you interact with the well. Loot is set sometime before that or is static. And was wondering if loot is set in advance on most containers, how do they implement Luck.