Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - Suggestions and Feedback Starting builds presets change

I am sorry for my huge negativity Hiver. I am just really grumpy.

Alright. I appreciate that.
I tend to be grumpy too.

I actually dislike that there are "classes" in the game at all, but as long as there has to be some, even as just starting suggestions they may as well be as unique as possible. And thematically interesting.

The ordinary spells choices are not great regardless of class, except maybe warfare. But to me this kind of build would use necromancy for immediate defense and debuffs while summons would take on offense.

Naturally, you can change the load out in character creation and buy whatever other spells are there at the start of the game to make such a build more fitting for your preferences.
As i said, presets like these are there also to make players think about different options and choices.

Maybe i could make a Warlock preset with just necromancy - so we can choose that as origin build and then add whatever other magic or ability we want.

So... maybe...

Warlock - Int, Wits, Mem
Necromancy - "damage reflection" - Loremaster?
Blood rain, Leech, Mosquito swarm
racial talent - Elemental affinity, comeback kid

so then the player can add some other elemental school or ability at first level up.

Shame there are no other witchcraft spells from the previous game, but some are probably made into Source spells now.

At first I too hated that D:OS 2 came with presets,but ever since I started my small vlogging series called "review of companion presets" (links in signature) I discovered that the presets are very fun and challenging puzzles for players who are past their first playthrough,but requires some more polishing.

My favorite example is that of the Inquisitor - a spec I hate to this day due to it's overly deceptive description on how it is supposed to function and how horribly the starting skills interact with the starting weapon, but when you gain a party member with whom to swap weapon sets around,they become pretty fun.

For the purpose of this example,let's assume we recruit the Red Prince as a fighter, who's base stat line begs for a staff.With a dwarven Inquisitor and weapon set from the Red Prince,you transform the dwarf into a competent fighter,while the Red Prince functions as a .... paladin of sorts.

There are other puzzles in this game,though not as forward as the one above and changing 1 preset can screw up at least 4 possible party compositions within the game.

I dont think the starting weapons should be any kind of big consideration since you can swap them almost immediately in the game.

Some of my presets above also dont have their base attributes and other abilities or weapons aligned perfectly - but you get maybe more interesting options and different starting playstyle in return. Like the Inquisitor preset i suggest above.

Since the game is not really class based and hybrid builds are very much preferable anyway, i think the good set of interesting options is better then some specific perfection in a build. And you can win any encounter even with the worst builds possible.

I would prefer if the skills and abilities had several different influences on various stats though, so a build would get something out of choosing one even if its not the best one for that kind of "class". And of course, if armors worked as percentage based DR, not as complete immunity barriers.

I was not talking about the presets you can make at character creation, I was talking about the presets you are forced to chose when hiring a companion to join you.

For new players it is important to have presets which are not ambiguous and have a description that matches it's purpose within the game.

Fighters are subpar front liners/tanks when compared to an Inquisitor with a sword and board, furthermore Red Prince + fighter preset is the only viable instance in which the fighter preset is good - for the purpose of fighting equiped with a staff!

Inquisitors are supposed to be staff wielders extraordinaire, but are actualy terrible when wielding that weapon because they gain no advantage in combat from destroying magical armor in melee combat.



This is not true in boss fights and partialy true in trash mob encounters. On explorer mode I insta lost on some encounters because my party did not have a competent front line fighter (I had a spear orientated knight and sebile as a shadowblade, it was the worst combo ever).

Presets are supposed to be this small little feature that help new players learn the mechanics of the game but if 2 or more presets fail misserably at the role they are assinged then they serve no purpose other than to annoy players.

That is the reason why i am making these suggestions too.

I find several builds as they are misleading and or badly made which makes my choices when getting the companions very annoying.

I do not want a fighter who actually turns out to be a fighter-geomancy mage.

I want a pure fighter to start with and then later on i can add or change stuff as i like, not be forced to play a build i dont want to play with, or lose one point into something i dont want.



Thats why my version is supposed to be more of a wizard then a fighter, (with skills more fitting for the inquisition archetype), but i do imagine it wielding a mace and a shield maybe, at the very start, rather then a staff.

Although not being very good at it.

Maybe wand or wands instead would be even better?



I cant say this was true for me. I played with relatively subpar and very hybridized builds on classic and found i can go through any encounter, as long as im close to the level of enemies which seems to have the biggest effect on success on combat.

Although Ai is already so good they can hold their own even if they are level weaker then me.

Well I made not 1 but 4 really extensive guides on how I feel the presets work for each race individualy and linked them all in one post here: http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=605277#Post605277

The highlights of my research are as follows:

*Inquisitor is basicaly the fighter preset
*Shadowblade has the least amount of viable pathways (by this I mean that you can build on top of the free skills you get and not be forced to recreate your companion from mostly 0 upwards)
*Most presets favour 2 races and provide downsides to the other 2 (it's harder to level up certain races using certain presets, like lizzard + inquisitor) but there are some presets which favour 3 races and provides downsides to just one (conjurer can be very good for dwarves,elfs and humans but I can't imagine making a good lizzard conjurer for the early game outside of character creation)
*Fighter is the only preset where I can claim without a shadow of a doubt that Contamination is given here just to act as a dump skill,something you remove asap from your memorised spell list.

Ive seen your posts.

Generally, i would think that Larian just made some quick presets so they can go on with testing and development, not that those are their best and definite builds they would so kind of support.

In that sense my suggestions are not telling Larian how to do their business better, nor they are the most perfect builds, but more of examples how presets can be made to be more imaginative and interesting - which also would push or hint to the players that there are other more interesting options.

The presets do need a few basic pure builds to make it easier on the players to create characters exactly like they want later on, and to choose more precisely what they want for the companions. As well as more interesting hybrids.

I agree with you on the notion that the presets are well thought and planed out,but I think the Inquisitor and Shadowblade presets are outdated because they are from a patch where necromancy spells damaged magical armour.

Inquisitor is curently the closest thing to a pure fighter and it really favors sword and board fighting style.
Of the current presets metamorph is the easiest to adjust to make a pure fighter like preset....we just have to move that +1 in two handed to something more general purpose.

"I agree with you on the notion that the presets are well thought and planed out"

errm... i think the opposite. I think they just made some quick presets and havent bothered to make them better, for the purposes of alpha or beta testing.

I would expect them to make better ones before the game goes out.

Holy molly.....I am sorry about that,was a little tipsy when I started replying to your comment (pre party drinks,lol) but seriously, the way some presets bend based on what +2 bonuses you get from the racials is very interesting to me.

One of Larian's shortcomings is that they rely on the presets they have set up in D:OS 1 and have very little interest in spicing stuff up, like for instance giving the Inquisitor preset aerothurge and polymorph skill acess. Loreplay wise this combination gives such an unique vibe...being a spellcaster able to increase the amount of magical power he can hold within his body by mutating it or by having the caster mutate his own body to cast really advanced spells that either require chanting from 2 mouths 2 different sets of incantations or by making hand signs that require 12 or more fingers. Also aerothurge is the spelline which involes channeling electricity and raw magical power.

I do hope that the current skill line from Inquisitor is copy-pasted unto the Fighter and that the new Inquisitor get's this fun stat line.

Shadowblade has some very limited level up options:either Aerothurge, Polymorph or Warfare are the most viable because of the backstaber talent and the scoundrel skills he gets. Also having free access to Necromancy means that Decaying Touch is up for grabs. What I would really wish for this preset is that for the backstaber talent to be replaced by the Guerrila talent, simply because it is a more advantageous talent to have for a stealthy magic user.

When i hear Inquisitor i see the middle ages Inquisition type of character.

So thats why my version of that build has pyromancy and necromancy as skills and leech as a starting talent.
thinking more about it i guess it would be interesting to make it into a wand wielder as weapons are concerned, so its different then another fighter-mage build, which we have plenty of.

I did give my shadowblade the guerilla talent, to differentiate it from a rogue. And it fits much better.

As for talents i think it would be best if all presets had only one locked in by default, and that those who give +2 in some attribute were just one of the options players can choose themselves. If they are to be there at all.
Might be the best to remove that completely. Racial talents should be more quirky ones, like those other that all presets have right now. Except a more interesting one should be given to humans then being "thrifty".
I think Baardvarks "tactics" would be a much better choice.


Ok so, presets with a few additions and some smaller changes. Some details could be better probably, but i feel these would be decent enough to start with. You would get two talents to choose, those which give +2 to attribute would be removed. Human basic racial talent would be "tactics" as Baardvark made it for his Bard mod.

And few others too:
"Lizard: Shed Skin. Remove all statuses on yourself, positive and negative, and apply a 25% all resistance penalty to yourself for 2 turns."

I think this one should be better, reminds me too much of the Sebille special source skill and doesnt look like anything i would use myself, while its hard to see how it could be used if im frozen, petrified or stunned.
Besides, lizards dont shed skins, snakes do.

Maybe it would be better to have some kind of Lizard gaze, - soft stun or petrified for one turn, maybe lose initiative? Or something like lizards ability to regrow lost limbs - regeneration of vitality for two turns, maybe + remove crippled on yourself.

Dwarf: Stone's Embrace. Grant a target Stone's Embrace, which increases their physical and piercing resistance by 35%, but reduces their move speed by 75%.

Human: Tactics. For 2 turns, grant an ally +5 initiative, or an enemy -5 initiative. Note: initiative changes don't take effect until the turn after the status is applied.

Elf keeps their special corpse eating ability.



Witch - Int, Mem, Wits
Necro, Summoning, Bartering,
Conjure Incarnate, Mosquito swarm, Decaying touch
racial talent - Leech, Savage Sortilege
weapon - wand (two wands)


Wizard - Int +2, Mem +1
Pyromancer, Aerothurge, Loremaster,
Shocking touch, Haste, Electric discharge
racial talent - Elemental affinity, Savage Sortilege
weapon - staff


Battlemage - Str, Int, Mem
Warfare, Aerothurge, Telekinesis,
Shocking touch, Critical strike, Blinding radiance
racial talent - Parry master, Comeback Kid
weapon - mace and shield


Inquisitor - Int, Mem, Con,
Pyromancer, Necro, Telekinesis
Searing daggers, Ignition, Raining blood
racial talent - Leech, What a Rush
weapon - Wand (wand + shield)


Cleric - Int, Str, Wits
Geomancer, Hydrosphist, Loremaster,
Armour of Frost, Restoration, Fortify
racial talent - Picture of health, Elemental affinity
weapon - Staff


Ranger - Finesse +2 Wits +1
Hunstman +2 Sneaking +1,
Mark, Marksman Fang, Aid
racial talent - Arrow recovery, Pet pal
weapon - Bow


Wayfarer - Fin, Int, Mem
Geomancer, Huntsman , Bartering,
Ricochet, Poison dart, Fossil strike
racial talent - Elemental ranger, Far out Man
weapon - Crossbow


Fighter - Str, Fin, Wits
Warfare, Huntsman, Lucky charm,
Battlestomp, Mark, Enrage
racial talent - Opportunist, Guerilla
weapon - mace and shield (bow, crossbow)


Soldier - Str, Con, Wits
Warfare, Single handed, Bartering,
Critical Strike, Battlestomp, Battering ram
racial talent - What a rush, Opportunist
weapon - sword and shield (mace)


Knight - Str+2, Wits
Warfare, Two handed, Telekinesis,
Critical strike, Battering ram, Battlestomp
racial talent - Executioner, Hothead
weapon - two hander sword


Paladin Str, Mem, Con
Warfare, Hydrologist, Persuasion
Battlestomp, Restoration, Armor of frost
racial talent - Comeback kid, Elemental affinity
weapon - sword and shield (single handed)


Rogue - Fin +2, Wits, (this one is changed the least)
Scoundrel, Dual Wielding, Thievery,
Backlash, Throwing knife, Adrenaline
racial talent - Back-stabber, Parry master
weapon - two daggers (dual wielding)


Shadowblade, - Fin+2, Mem,
Scoundrel, Necromancy, Sneaking,
Throwing knife, Raining blood, Decaying touch,
racial talent - What a rush, Guerrilla
weapon - sword and wand (single handed weapons)


Enchanter - Int+2, Mem
Hydrosophist, Aerothurge, Lucky Charm,
Hail strike, Blinding radiance, Restoration,
racial talent - Pet pal, Mnemonic
weapon - staff


+ Bard presets as per Bardvark mod.

I feel the same when I think of Inquisitors, but if we are talking about the current presets, having one battlemage type character with points in polymorphing and no points in weapon skills, would be a welcome adition to the game because bull rush can be cast with bows,staves and wand + shield combo.

For roleplay reasons these combat skills also make sense - you have polymorph where you can shapeshift into the person you are trying to interogate and aerothurge is the best magical choice for non lethal take downs, torture and imobilizating enemies. +1 in persuasion here also makes a huge amount of sense when you consider these situations.

Also I think the +2 in stats are more than enough to give each preset a unique feeling based on what race choice is made and that lizzard shed skin should be a source skill for polymorphing as I feel it is too strong for a free non source racial and am unsure on how that human racial would play out, but I like that dwarven racial proposed here.

I would rather have polymorph - shapeshifter have their own unique kind of class-preset.
With hybrid variations.

Its unique enough kind of style and lore build and should not be fused with or given to other general kind of classes. Of course, players can mix and match as they like.

There is no shapeshifting into other persons, enemies or NPCs in this game. Although that would be a cool gameplay element in combat.

And +2 attribute talents should be removed. They only clash with some builds and presets, as you present in your thread and i dont see why any race should have any such advantage.

I am not saying we should do away with a dedicated metamorph preset, what I am saying is that polymorphing is a better skill line to have for a magic weapons based fighter.

And despite not having lore wise the ability to fully shapeshift into other people we still have some very exotic traits for a magic weapon specialist when you put toghether aerothurge, the magical class dedicated to spells involving the use and control of raw energy alongside polymorphing the magical class dedicated to spells involving the control of one's body - the theme here is control ; control of ones ability to chanel raw magical power and one's body parts.

Also the reason why I think the +2 stat talents are good is because it requires less effort to balance,update and remake from scratch the presets, giving Larian more time to focus on sorting out bugs and adding new features.

I agree it gets annoying at times when presets clash with racials, but if we are not talking about the scoundrel based presets some can be fun to convert - like the current Inquisitor preset where you need to sacrifice 2 hotkeys on your skill tab to able to quickly equip either your best staff or your based str/fin based 2 handed weapon.

Hiver I like your idea of Cleric.
Wich is one class I would like to create. (Paladin would be nice too)

But picture of health doesn't work if you are not putting anything into warfare.
As a starting talent I wouldn't add it, since many players view the Cleric as a buffer / healer.

I like to use it as a fighter, a front melee with some reliable heals or buffs...(not as strong as my melee in that case)

I would add something like bigger and better or all skill up for this preset. With this current system in place.

My actual suggestion is:
A specific talent for a specific class. Especially created for each preset.
But it seens larian likes hybrids builds so, I don't thik this is going to happen.

I didnt say you were saying that.
Both basic pure polymoprh and summoner presets can remain as they are in addition to these other presets i made. Not that anyone will officially change the presets like i suggest.

What i am saying is that any polymorph-hybrid class should be its own thing. Not an "inquistor".

Unless there are some specific "inquisitor" polymorphs in the setting or the story.

These presets and classes dont really exist in the game anyway.
They are just approximations, put in for the casual audience easy of use. They dont serve any purpose in the setting or the story and as far am concerned they could all be removed.

Only they wont be, because a part of audience is used to such "classes".



Yeah ive heard. Didnt have anything else that would be fitting for a cleric kind of build and still a bit unique or not given to other presets.

Besides that, ive always disliked the idea that pure cleric is a fighter too. If you want to make him a fighter then make him a hybrid. I would rather have pure clerics actually be clerics, not fighters with god powers and some dumb weapon restrictions. Thats just DnD nonsense and lack of imagination and i dont see why every game needs to copy-paste DnD failures and features.

Neither are available as char creation Talents. Bigger and Better is currently atrociously terrible because it trades a "once every 4 levels" Talent for a "2 per level" Attribute. That's like paying 8 dollars to purchase 1 dollar.




The game needs more Talents, but they aren't going to make a "restricted to X preset" Talent, because presets are NOT classes.

Hiver,here is the thing, lorewise Inquisitors are specialists in the use of magical weapons (as seen when you talk with companions on what role they should assume within your party) and polymorph make's the most sense for them because it gives them mobility skills like bull rush and take flight which can be cast even with a wand and shield equiped and it also gives them more power in the sense that....polymorphing gives free stats.

No, no, no, you can't have wand and shield - it would look silly - it would be like dagger and shield. Shields go with swords or axes.

Inquisitors should use a staff and touch spells only. Well in my vision of them anyway - perhaps I have no imagination.