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enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2017
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Is it possible to GM your friends while they play through the main campaign? I can't even comprehend how mind blowing this would be.
GMAddon1: Adds almost every single monster and NPC from the main campaign into GM mode, plus a few large custom maps to use in GM mode.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
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Sadly, all indications say this won't be possible. The devs seem to want as little scripting in the game master mode as possible, and the main campaign will probably have hundreds of scripts.
You could probably recreate the main campaign as empty levels, eliminate all the scripts but use existing NPCs and stuff and then the GM could give a new personality for all the characters and completely change the feel of fort joy (e.g., add more guards and prisoners, make a bunch of voidwoken attack, etc). Not ideal, but could be fun with the right group of people and GM.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: May 2017
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You could probably recreate the main campaign as empty levels, eliminate all the scripts but use existing NPCs and stuff and then the GM could give a new personality for all the characters and completely change the feel of fort joy (e.g., add more guards and prisoners, make a bunch of voidwoken attack, etc). Not ideal, but could be fun with the right group of people and GM.
Even that won't really work. I was told by a dev at steam that "same level area transations" such as to the cave with the elves and the interior of the Fort won't work because of that being scripting. Therefor you may asume that "atmosphere triggers" won't work either. Of course the GM can change the atmosphere. but that will be "level wide" so player(s) not in an interior will also have the interior lighting, or the player(s) inside will have exterior lighting. It looks like the GM mode really forces you to run a campaign as a series of encounters in small areas unless you are willing to suffer long loading times every time the party leaves an interior like a shop and goes outside to the "large exterior". Some limited scripting, such as same level transitions and atmosphere triggers are a must if you ask me as they will hugly expand the experience and actually allow for larger areas instead of forcing the GM to stick to small encounter based ones.
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enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2017
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This is quite the bummer, but I'll still have a good time building my own world for GM Mode.
GMAddon1: Adds almost every single monster and NPC from the main campaign into GM mode, plus a few large custom maps to use in GM mode.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
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Even that won't really work. I was told by a dev at steam that "same level area transations" such as to the cave with the elves and the interior of the Fort won't work because of that being scripting. Therefor you may asume that "atmosphere triggers" won't work either. Of course the GM can change the atmosphere. but that will be "level wide" so player(s) not in an interior will also have the interior lighting, or the player(s) inside will have exterior lighting.
It looks like the GM mode really forces you to run a campaign as a series of encounters in small areas unless you are willing to suffer long loading times every time the party leaves an interior like a shop and goes outside to the "large exterior".
Some limited scripting, such as same level transitions and atmosphere triggers are a must if you ask me as they will hugly expand the experience and actually allow for larger areas instead of forcing the GM to stick to small encounter based ones.
I'd be surprised if atmosphere triggers counted as "scripting." They're more part of level design than anything. As far as transitioning to other game areas, yes, you're right that if that's impossible that's annoying. But the GM could still teleport players to the other areas (assuming the GM can look outside the primary map to find the other locations. May have to modify the map area to make other locations closer for the GM to reach.) But yeah, I really want even basic options for scripting to. I mean, characters scripts HAVE to work, right? If not, you literally wouldn't even be able to add my bard class to the GM mode...
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2015
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From the interview Swen made with RPGCodex (not only about GM mode) http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=10670 The GM mode has nothing to do with singleplayer, it’s purely for multiplayer. In Gamemaster mode, when you see the backend, there’s no scripting in it whatsoever. It is really something that has been made to allow the GM to modify the world in real time while you play the session. He can control characters, he can create items, he can create surfaces, he can change the weather, change the ambient music, etc.[...]
You should have a read guys. That may answer a few questions.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: May 2017
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Possibility of this being modded in?
I've seen modders do amazing things with other games (Skyrim GTA etc...) and was just wondering if there is a collective know how of modders who could make this happen?
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enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2017
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From the interview Swen made with RPGCodex (not only about GM mode) http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=10670 The GM mode has nothing to do with singleplayer, it’s purely for multiplayer. In Gamemaster mode, when you see the backend, there’s no scripting in it whatsoever. It is really something that has been made to allow the GM to modify the world in real time while you play the session. He can control characters, he can create items, he can create surfaces, he can change the weather, change the ambient music, etc.[...]
You should have a read guys. That may answer a few questions. Thank you so much for posting that.  That answers my question. Kind of bummed out I can't have a DM while I play through the main campaign, but the fact you guys give us so much freedom already has me still feeling super satisfied and excited about this game!
GMAddon1: Adds almost every single monster and NPC from the main campaign into GM mode, plus a few large custom maps to use in GM mode.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: May 2017
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Thanks norD, that was an interesting read. I am not very happy about this part though: In Gamemaster mode, when you see the backend, there’s no scripting in it whatsoever.
No same-level transitions? No atmosphere triggers? That puts a severe limitation on the area design for GM- mode as well as it is taking away lot's of role play possibilities. EDIT: So basically this is going to be Sword Coast Legends all over again except that in Sword Coast Legends I could have a Merchant Street with shops and a tavern that players could enter seperatly and on their own. I was one of the few that actually loved the GM mode in SCL and the main reason I gave up on that game was the lack of content, something that won't be an issue in DOS2 for sure, but not even having basics such as opening a door in the street and entering a shop without the GM loading up a new area and taking the entire party there is a huge setback and forces me to rethink the design of the areas I was going to build and the campaign I was going to run.
Last edited by Redunzgofasta; 23/06/17 08:52 AM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Dec 2013
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...but not even having basics such as opening a door in the street and entering a shop without the GM loading up a new area and taking the entire party there is a huge setback and forces me to rethink the design of the areas I was going to build and the campaign I was going to run. Why would you need to load a new area when entering a shop on the street? You can still have buildings inside an area that are fully decorated and filled out as far as I know. You don't teleport to new maps when entering buildings in D:OS or DOS:2. Taking a flight of stairs to a new level within a building will be a little awkward since in that case, I believe you will need to move the person to a different map section in the same level, but you shouldn't need to load a new level if you included the 'upstairs' section somewhere in it.
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enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2017
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...basics such as opening a door in the street and entering a shop without the GM loading up a new area and taking the entire party there is a huge setback and forces me to rethink the design of the areas I was going to build and the campaign I was going to run. The way the house / wall editor works in the world editor is that you have seamless transitions between exteriors and interiors. You don't have to load a transition into a simple house. You simply open the door and walk in and it's technically the same area and level as the outdoor area. The only time you'd need a transition is if it's a big dungeon, castle or cave or a house with multiple levels. Then you need a transition of they go up or down stairs.
Last edited by Shapeshifter777; 23/06/17 12:17 PM.
GMAddon1: Adds almost every single monster and NPC from the main campaign into GM mode, plus a few large custom maps to use in GM mode.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: May 2017
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I have been using the DOS1 editor rather intensive lately so I am fully aware of how you can enter a building, or take the stairs in the campaigns guys, it triggers a teleport script with a trigger as it's destination, but without a functional atmosphere trigger it will look pretty bad.
The same goes for manualy teleporting (auto teleport won't work remember) a player to the basement, attick or whatever, without a functional atmosphere trigger it will look bad. And that is asuming it even will work and teleport range for both target and destination insn't limited to what the GM cn actually see on the map. Being able to select a player by it's portrait and teleport him anywhere no matter the range would be needed for that.
And yes, I know the GM can adjust the atmosphere, but that would be level wide and turn the exterior into interior lighting as well and that would be bad for the players not going into that shop or what ever, or force them to stay together. And in that case it most likely is easier to just load a new level.
So unfortunatly any interior will have to be a new level.
Last edited by Redunzgofasta; 23/06/17 03:30 PM.
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enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2017
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I have been using the DOS1 editor rather intensive lately so I am fully aware of how you can enter a building, or take the stairs in the campaigns guys, it triggers a teleport script with a trigger as it's destination, but without a functional atmosphere trigger it will look pretty bad.
The same goes for manualy teleporting (auto teleport won't work remember) a player to the basement, attick or whatever, without a functional atmosphere trigger it will look bad. And that is asuming it even will work and teleport range for both target and destination insn't limited to what the GM cn actually see on the map. Being able to select a player by it's portrait and teleport him anywhere no matter the range would be needed for that.
And yes, I know the GM can adjust the atmosphere, but that would be level wide and turn the exterior into interior lighting as well and that would be bad for the players not going into that shop or what ever, or force them to stay together. And in that case it most likely is easier to just load a new level.
So unfortunatly any interior will have to be a new level. That's how it would have been in the old version of the editor that shipped with DoS 1, yes. However, if you play that three player castle-courtyard arena map in DoS 2 EA, you'll notice it looks like they have a new system. The lighting inside the houses is different at all times than it is outside. Idk how they did this. Maybe you can draw an area in the map editor that you want to designate to be indoor and change the lighting there without relying on triggers this time around?
GMAddon1: Adds almost every single monster and NPC from the main campaign into GM mode, plus a few large custom maps to use in GM mode.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: May 2017
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That's how it would have been in the old version of the editor that shipped with DoS 1, yes. However, if you play that three player castle-courtyard arena map in DoS 2 EA, you'll notice it looks like they have a new system. The lighting inside the houses is different at all times than it is outside. Idk how they did this. Maybe you can draw an area in the map editor that you want to designate to be indoor and change the lighting there without relying on triggers this time around?
That is exactly what DOS1 does. The area you draw is an atmosphere trigger.
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enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2017
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That's how it would have been in the old version of the editor that shipped with DoS 1, yes. However, if you play that three player castle-courtyard arena map in DoS 2 EA, you'll notice it looks like they have a new system. The lighting inside the houses is different at all times than it is outside. Idk how they did this. Maybe you can draw an area in the map editor that you want to designate to be indoor and change the lighting there without relying on triggers this time around?
That is exactly what DOS1 does. The area you draw is an atmosphere trigger. I thought that the way DOS1 did was that, when you entered the trigger, it changed the atmosphere for the user's game client. For example, stand inside the tavern and suddenly, outside, it looks like the same lighting that's in the tavern when you look past the wall. Then walk outside the tavern and, looking past the wall in, it looks like daylight inside the tavern. DOS2 does it quite differently. It ALWAYS looks like the same lighting inside the buildings, whether you are standing inside or out of them. In DOS1, it only looks like the appropriate lighting inside the building, if you are standing in it.
GMAddon1: Adds almost every single monster and NPC from the main campaign into GM mode, plus a few large custom maps to use in GM mode.
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enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2017
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I'm not sure what it is, but whatever it is looks just fine. We shouldn't need to worry about not having triggers though. I believe we can still make stand alone campaigns or dungeon crawls that rely on scripts, but we can't have them with a DM.
We really need some good documentation / video tutorials this time around though.
Last edited by Shapeshifter777; 24/06/17 04:27 PM.
GMAddon1: Adds almost every single monster and NPC from the main campaign into GM mode, plus a few large custom maps to use in GM mode.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: May 2017
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I'm not sure what it is, but whatever it is looks just fine. I disagree. It looks acceptable at best, and only so when no alternative is available. We shouldn't need to worry about not having triggers though. I believe we can still make stand alone campaigns or dungeon crawls that rely on scripts, but we can't have them with a DM. That's why I worry. GM mode is all I care for. We really need some good documentation / video tutorials this time around though. The available documentation for DOS1 suited me just fine, but I have no idea how soon after release it was available.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2016
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I mean, GM mode is specifically for on-the-fly "I sure didn't expect that" things the players do. I don't really see it being the end-all be-all for worlds. It's not really designed to be something like NWN2 stillh as to this day with persistent multi-map 40+ pplayer worlds that can ALSO have GMs for non-scripted stuff. It's pretty explicitly just having a GM to handhold the players through every interaction.
Whereas creating full campaigns with scripted NPC action and such is just... y'know... for scripted, massive worlds with their own set paths and yadda yadda blah blah.
The GM mode is a social thing for a small group of friends to have a pseudo-tabletop experience. Nothing else, not even from advertisements.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: May 2017
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I agree with "scripted NPC actions and such" not being the scope of the GM-mode, but not having limmited scipting such as same-level area transitions, atmospheric triggers and the ability to have NPC's, livestock and what not to "wander" greatly influences area design, and role play possibilites, in a negative way.
This may be fine for groups that like their campaign to be a series of action based encounters, but for true roleplaying and world immersion some basic scripting is a must have.
Can you imagine how dead an area will look as the cows in the meadow just stand there like statues while you aproach the farm to have a chat with the farmer, having to load a new area after the farmers wife informes you her husband is in the barn, and laoding the farm area again when you leave the barn?
Last edited by Redunzgofasta; 25/06/17 08:25 AM.
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