Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - General Free respec is gamebreaking, casual and bad design

Nobody cares about balence in a single RPG / co-op

You're kinda acting as if you're playing an MMO. There's no one inside your game other than yourself to "exploit" the system, so why care that much about what other people do with their games? Kinda sounds like you're in a platonic competition with hypothetical people. If something doesn't impact you negatively at the moment, but you're suggesting a change that's going to negatively impact other people (and still have zero impact on you), I don't see why the change should be made in the first place.

Gamebreaking would be to live forever with a badly designed party. I changed only a bit (Ifan's beard in the first place, he got a shaving device to use) but I had a lot of experience from the EA. I'm usually not enthusiastic, but the respec is a great feature, adding to an already great game.

Hi,

// Free respec is gamebreaking, //
For you maybe; I had a look at the respect; was jolly excited it was there, and for free!
I then proceeded to remove points where I didn't want them, put them where I did; customised my character a little further to my preferred style, was happy and continued playing.
No gamebreaking to be had.

// casual //
I don't even know what this means.
Casual as in what? Casual vs Hardcore?

// and bad design //
In your opinion, of course.

~NuttiKrust

It's clear people aren't getting it. If in the core game all characters had a skill that instakilled anything, would you think it was stupid/broken?

"Oh but it's as hard as you want, just don't use it"
"I love the instakill! Can the peasants have something"
"Not everyone wants the game to be hard!"
"In your opinion you should have to work for to win fights, I think the game is hard enough as it is"

If it's in the core game it should be balanced. Free and unlimited redistribution of all points is over the top if it's in the core game. If you wanted to respec constantly so badly you could download a mod or enter the console or edit some game files, but that would be your out of game actions. Just like you could probably download a skill that did 1 billion damage directly to vitality on a 1 turn cooldown.

The contention is such a thing should not be available to such a degree, not that it exists at all.

Most of the time, Hardcore in a PvE game means "Minimal quality of life and as much handicap as possible". Also, keep telling everyone your build is terrible and that you can beat the game with it while calling everyone who does stuff efficiently as a bunch of casual.

I agree that game breaking stuff should be fixed but if you intentionally role play with a handicap, don't push personal limition on other people.

I wouldn't mind if the respec had some sort of cost (because I'm more on the roleplay aspect, and I consider that one doesn't change his lifelong knowledge and training with the flick of a wrist), but considering how uncompromising the game is in the fights, the staggering difference skill choice can make, how complex the whole system is, how long it can take to know it is and how easily you can ruin a character, a respec system is absolutely necessary.

I really, really don't want to throw a 20-hour game out of the window because I realize later that I leveled up myself in a corner.
Or to play for 15 hours just to test out something and check if it works.

Hi,


Whilst I agree with this in general; more specifically, I feel if it's in the core game and you have to use it (e.g: a spell, weapon type etc), then it should be balanced.
But if something is completely optional and doesn't impact you in the slightest for not using it..rather leave it be. Especially if it's established that others like the feature and use it.
Edit: This would be entirely situational, of course, as it will work in some instances, but not all.


Perhaps in a multiplayer game, or some kind of PvP experience; but in a single player game where the feature is optional? I disagre.


Or we could just use the in-game built feature; and you could stop trying to control how others play the game?
If you don't like the feature, don't use it, and if there's some imbalance, so what? It's a single player game; so the only person being affected would the individual using the feature. Don't use it, and there's no imbalance.


Really not comparable in the slightest.


Don't use it then; or, hey, a better idea, install a mod that removes it from your game.

~NuttiKrust

It is fine the way it is. I never understood the mentality where something that is OPTIONAL in a singleplayer game has to be removed because someone might use it to make the game easier for themselves. Just don't use it and let others do what they want. If they want to create uber characters that destroy rats and gods with impunity, let them, it is their game and if they enjoy it, isn't that what matters in the end? I only used it once because Accidentally increased Ifans intelligence instead of his finesse early on and this let me fix it.

"Don't use it" is a really dumb argument, even singleplayer games need to be balanced.

If you play a tycoon or city builder game and there was a building unlocked halfway into the game that was free and generates you tons of money, would you also say "You don't have to use it, it gives other players options, it's a singleplayer game afterall"? Lmao, thats simply bad game design.

I don't abuse the system the way I described, but simply it being so easy to exploit devalues the whole experience.




If I fail a persuasion check I can just come back with a different character, no savescumming needed.
Drop a pyramid by the NPC you are having trouble with, teleport to the ship, respec, teleport back, takes less than a minute.

I can't understand how you can defend such a huge oversight, again, if you can come back in less than a minute with character stats fit for every situation, why have roleplaying aspect in the first place? It completely nullifies specializing your party.
"Just don't use it" doesn't make a broken gamemechanic less broken, simple as that.



What is game balance?

"Hey, let's just give players endless amounts of money whenever they want, it gives players options afterall."
"Let's give the player a skill that can instakill any enemy whenever they want, it's not broken, it's just optional"

lmao, a game that advertises itself as being an oldschool RPG experience "with a really good game master" ( Swen Vinckes words ) shouldn't be so easily breakable.

It's still your choice as to whether or not you use or abuse it. Artificially locking out access to what's really just a quality-of-life issue in case someone doesn't have the wherewithal to not misuse it is the sort of hand-holding that modern RPGs are often criticised for. I honestly don't get the ire about features like this, I figure people can use restraint both with their own gameplay and desire to meddle with others'.

I already covered that at the beginning of the post.
As I said, it's situational. Something like a weapon type being OP would need to be balanced and simply saying "well don't use that weapon type" won't work because then someone is being sidelined from using that weapon type.

In the case of a respec, nobody is being sidelined.
There is no imbalance if it's not being used; there is only the possibility of being an imbalance if someone exploits it; and if it is .. it's not my game that's being exploited, it's theirs. Don't see why I should be denied a free feature because some random person can't play the game without exploiting it.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Yes, actually I would. :P
Would I use it? Maybe, probably .. okay, totally. FREE MONEH!
Would others? Maybe not.
So what? Still my game, still my experience, still my decision if I want to use it or not.



Only if you care how other people play the game; which I personally don't. My experience is no less valued than what it was before I discovered the free respec; nor has the value changed knowing that people exploit it.

If someone wants to exploit it and, IMHO, ruin the experience for themselves - so be it; it's not my problem.

I say 'don't use it' because you really don't have to use it. You don't have to experience it. You don't have to interact with it in anyway. You ignore it, and you continue playing the game the way you want to play it and let other players play it the way they want to play it.

~NuttiKrust

Telling me to artificially gimp myself by not using a system is much less elegant than desigining that system to not be hilariously exploitable

You are all still in the honeymoon phase and can't see just how some of the changes are compared to the first game.

Psychologist's fallacy.
Until you can provide objective proof of this imbalance, it is nothing more than your opinion.

~NuttiKrust

And you need to realize this is Divinity 2, not Divinity 1. This kind of complaint is as entitled as FF7 fans complaining about the remake not being the exact same game just with better graphic.

So the answer is that everyone else should be "artificially gimped", as you put it, by removing the respeccing system? I've still yet to see a compelling argument against the "don't like it, don't use it" approach.

I'm not saying that it should be removed, but should cost money like in the first game, that way you can not abuse it as easily.

I agree that single player games have to be balanced. If there were skills so much more powerful than usual and so easy to use that all would be trivialized, it would be bad. But the respec is far from such an op feature. You are exaggerating the possible negative influence. It's is not like the uber skill on your bar.

You have to go back and reskill, then try again. It's at least a little bit inconvenient. You could also try again with your proven build, just try another approach. It's up to you. If someone hits a big wall and cannot go further with his build, then it is a chance to overcome the wall. It's better than to reroll, if you have a life beyond the game.

Games like Skyrim or the Total War series must be a horror for you. Because you can of course easily mod you super weapons or troops. You need a certain kind of self control to avoid it. It's the same with the respec.

And the respec is a good tool for experimentation

That's presuming that people abuse it: I haven't used it at all yet in spite of my builds probably being less than ideal. And if other people do "abuse" it, so what? What they do in their games is none of my business.

You know what? i think that the whole point of this thread is about comparing e-penis. I mean, all the comparisons with mods didnt work because, if you use a mod, you cant (unless you're liar) tell "i beat the game in tactician/honour mode!", because you actually played a modified version of the game.
You cant really brag of your playthrough.
Same argument with difficult. Explorer mode is far more easy than tactician, but nobody complain saying "it's not fair, some player could abuse this difficult system to make their game easier!". Why? because, in that case, you cant say "i finished the game on the hardest mode!".
So, the point is that there are free respecs on every difficult, and there's isnt a "no respecs mode". If there was such modality, i think nobody would complain about that, because in that case they will just raise over the "just tactician respecs" plebs.

The whole point is that if there is some "make easier" mechanic in one game, generally the hardcore player want some tag/achievement/medal to beat the game without using it.