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Banned
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Banned
Joined: Mar 2015
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Wow, pretty dramatic change that seemed to be fairly under the radar. Wits definitely needs a big buff it only adds 1% crit. I like the concept of a more evenly distributed turn order, but forcing exact alternating turns seems a bit extreme.
The alternating turn order thing could maybe stay if there was more of a benefit to having higher initiative than enemies. Maybe your first turn you deal more damage or have an extra AP if you have significantly more initiative. But, yeah, at least the option to revert it to the old way would be nice. There's many different reasons why this is a really bad system, but even if we incentivize things like Wits and the advancement side of things, we're still left with the situation where it's impossible to capitalize appropriately on initiative in a definitive manner as a team. This doesn't just affect the player, by the way. It also affects the enemies. For example, enemies in D:OS2 are perfectly capable of putting out barrels on one turn, and then have another enemy break it on the next. However, this obviously doesn't happen when doing round-robin turns. With alternating turns, the landscape keeps changing rapidly, and it's practically impossible for both the player and the enemies to use this to their advantage at any point unless they're drastically outnumbering their opponent (which in case the player is outnumbering mooks, it will not matter, and if the player is outnumbered, they're already in trouble) - because in the case of mass outnumbering, everyone not in the initial "round robin" lineup gets tucked in a nice cozy lump at the end of the turn order, where they get to do setups or wreck shit. But nobody else. Ever. Once you notice this, you can never unsee it, and if you're like me and start reflecting over the implications both in terms of how it affects the "here and now" gameplay and from a game design perspective, it's infuriating - and an array of less flattering descriptors that really serve no constructive purpose. Edit: As a side note, far from the main issues of Initiative being trash and the turn-orders being broken, this also makes humans go from "questionable" to "utterly meaningless". They gain +1 Barter - unquestionably the least useful civic skill - and +2 Initiative, which now ranges from "completely useless" to "actually detrimental". Sure, they also get Encouragement (which is near-useless, even moreso when compared to the others) and +5% crit, but let's be honest here - that pales completely in comparison to the other races. But those issues are really completely beside the main issues, I just wanted to raise them.
Last edited by Luckmann; 20/09/17 09:38 PM.
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Entire Thread
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Initiative, how it works now?
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drBrod
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17/09/17 03:32 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Kalrakh
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17/09/17 03:37 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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17/09/17 03:39 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Stabbey
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17/09/17 03:47 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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17/09/17 03:57 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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JamesDyk
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19/09/17 09:09 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Kalrakh
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17/09/17 03:50 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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drBrod
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17/09/17 05:18 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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17/09/17 05:33 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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geala
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19/09/17 10:06 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Naqel
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19/09/17 10:14 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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geala
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19/09/17 10:29 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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19/09/17 10:40 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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19/09/17 10:41 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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drBrod
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19/09/17 11:00 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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19/09/17 11:03 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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19/09/17 11:05 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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19/09/17 11:08 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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geala
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19/09/17 11:20 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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19/09/17 11:30 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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geala
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20/09/17 06:46 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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20/09/17 08:37 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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geala
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20/09/17 12:17 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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JamesDyk
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19/09/17 12:29 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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19/09/17 12:44 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Deemedrol
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20/09/17 06:06 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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rumpelstilskin
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19/09/17 03:14 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Violet Gekko
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19/09/17 06:31 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Vibalist
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19/09/17 09:24 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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19/09/17 09:25 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Kalrakh
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19/09/17 09:27 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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19/09/17 09:29 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Vibalist
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19/09/17 09:40 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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20/09/17 05:48 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Mercer
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20/09/17 10:09 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Luckmann
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20/09/17 12:11 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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geala
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20/09/17 12:26 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Mercer
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20/09/17 03:35 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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kaltorak
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20/09/17 07:49 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Luckmann
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20/09/17 08:49 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Zherot
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21/09/17 12:54 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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20/09/17 12:13 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Kalrakh
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20/09/17 12:49 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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20/09/17 01:05 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Jimmious
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20/09/17 01:08 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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20/09/17 01:13 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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aqa
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21/09/17 09:20 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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21/09/17 09:27 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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aqa
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21/09/17 09:55 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Linio
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20/09/17 01:50 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Kalrakh
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20/09/17 07:26 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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kaltorak
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20/09/17 07:47 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Zherot
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20/09/17 08:05 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Baardvark
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20/09/17 09:07 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Luckmann
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20/09/17 09:34 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Vibalist
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21/09/17 12:11 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Diogenes
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21/09/17 04:09 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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21/09/17 04:54 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Zherot
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21/09/17 06:13 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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21/09/17 07:09 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Luckmann
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21/09/17 09:08 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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21/09/17 09:20 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Vibalist
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21/09/17 12:36 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Kalrakh
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21/09/17 07:15 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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geala
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21/09/17 09:13 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Jimmious
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21/09/17 09:15 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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21/09/17 12:55 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Stabbey
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21/09/17 01:29 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Kalrakh
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21/09/17 01:42 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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21/09/17 01:58 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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rumpelstilskin
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21/09/17 04:18 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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21/09/17 04:51 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Luckmann
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21/09/17 06:11 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Naqel
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22/09/17 08:26 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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22/09/17 08:45 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Terodil
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22/09/17 08:54 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Stabbey
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21/09/17 02:37 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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21/09/17 03:01 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Stabbey
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21/09/17 03:17 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Zherot
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21/09/17 06:11 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Luckmann
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21/09/17 07:36 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Akka
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22/09/17 08:16 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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21/09/17 03:45 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Stabbey
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21/09/17 07:39 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Terodil
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21/09/17 04:23 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Kilgrow
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21/09/17 07:07 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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21/09/17 07:48 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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GreatGuardsman
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21/09/17 09:35 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Stabbey
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21/09/17 11:43 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Kalrakh
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21/09/17 08:12 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Hassat Hunter
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22/09/17 12:26 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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22/09/17 12:35 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Stabbey
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22/09/17 01:35 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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22/09/17 01:36 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Terodil
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22/09/17 01:40 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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SniperHF
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22/09/17 04:02 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Akka
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22/09/17 08:48 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Kalrakh
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22/09/17 01:13 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Terodil
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22/09/17 01:29 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Kalrakh
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22/09/17 05:49 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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22/09/17 01:33 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ghatt
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22/09/17 02:02 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Hiver
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22/09/17 05:10 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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22/09/17 07:31 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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22/09/17 09:14 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Akka
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22/09/17 01:04 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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kaltorak
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22/09/17 09:21 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Kalrakh
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22/09/17 09:27 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Terodil
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22/09/17 09:31 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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22/09/17 09:42 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Kalrakh
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22/09/17 09:51 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Terodil
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22/09/17 09:50 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Terodil
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22/09/17 09:55 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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22/09/17 10:24 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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22/09/17 10:42 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Kalrakh
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22/09/17 10:48 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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22/09/17 11:34 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Hiver
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22/09/17 11:35 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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22/09/17 11:43 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Vibalist
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22/09/17 12:10 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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22/09/17 11:44 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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22/09/17 11:48 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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22/09/17 11:53 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Hiver
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22/09/17 12:12 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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22/09/17 12:23 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Hiver
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22/09/17 12:26 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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22/09/17 12:27 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Hiver
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22/09/17 12:32 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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22/09/17 12:34 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Hiver
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22/09/17 12:43 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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22/09/17 12:49 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Terodil
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22/09/17 01:19 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Stabbey
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22/09/17 01:40 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Terodil
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22/09/17 01:48 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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vometia
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22/09/17 01:51 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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22/09/17 02:42 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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22/09/17 04:03 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Violet Gekko
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22/09/17 04:42 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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22/09/17 04:50 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Volourn
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22/09/17 05:56 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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22/09/17 09:06 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Terodil
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22/09/17 09:44 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Stabbey
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22/09/17 09:06 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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22/09/17 09:13 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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22/09/17 10:08 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Terodil
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22/09/17 10:52 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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22/09/17 11:00 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Terodil
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22/09/17 11:08 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Stabbey
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22/09/17 11:08 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Ellezard
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22/09/17 11:40 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Stabbey
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23/09/17 01:50 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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vometia
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23/09/17 06:23 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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SelfCursed
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23/09/17 08:17 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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SelfCursed
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23/09/17 08:32 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Violet Gekko
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23/09/17 10:47 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Akka
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23/09/17 10:55 AM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Violet Gekko
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23/09/17 04:58 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Jimmious
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25/09/17 01:04 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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TsunAmik
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25/09/17 01:14 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Stabbey
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25/09/17 01:26 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Peysh
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25/09/17 04:01 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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iFreeDawg
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02/10/17 07:35 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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lampuiho
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18/11/17 01:30 PM
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Re: Initiative, how it works now?
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Yasen
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18/11/17 04:31 PM
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