Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Time to STOP

I am not speaking for anyone else here. I understood what you were saying. You don't enjoy Turn based. There are people here, myself included, who DO like turn based games. Having shared your ideas, yes. we acknowledge that there are people on both sides of the fence. And if Larian can swing a RTwP option that doesn't impact the timeline? That would be awesome. More people could enjoy the game that way. My only reason in posting is that you seem to assume that because you don't enjoy turn based games, that nobody does. Or that Turn based is in some way only done due to out-dated mechanics. Both of these are simply not the case.

It was presumably done by conscious decision on Larian's part. They determined that a turn based game would sell. And it appears they were correct.

I enjoy open world formats when they are done well and are interesting to explore, which is to say, not made by Ubisoft. I also don’t think CDPR make good open worlds either.

If Larian want to make one, I’d be excited to see how they handled it. But I don’t want them to stop making turn based tactical games. It’s a niche genre, with only a handful of big name titles. If Larian stopped making them I would be left with Fire Emblem and the odd indie game.

Larian have struck gold by being a big fish in a small pond. I’m not sure how interested they would be in competing in the more crowded open world game arena.

Has anyone heard of or played Sword Coast Legends, came out in 2015/2016, no longer available but can be found on youtube.
Its a top down D&D game based on 5th edition and in the WotCoast universe.

You build your character and during a fight, each character does what they do best, no micro management, its fun and fast, it does use Pause in case you get into trouble. The game was about 60% successful due to the lackluster story/decisions etc....

But Larian knows how to write great characters/narrative, build the world etc.... Why not give something like that a shot??

It was somewhat dated when it came out as to its narration/decision making or lack of, the music and world sound/look great.

Bottom line for me, the action is fast, its all about the story telling and the journey. That does not mean that fights can be simple (as in EASY Mode), but they can be faster and for me that's the key!

I'm currently playing The Dungeon of Naheulbeuk: The Amulet of Chaos, its kind of a starter/parody for turn based stagey/D&D games and its fun but it just does not draw me in b/c of the turn base fighting, some can take up to 15min. if it had a AI that I could set up and let things play out in RT than I would enjoy it more.
PoE:Deadfire, which i played and I played in RTwP, was ok but only b/c I didn't like the story or any factions or characters, it was a disappointment from a narrative perspective, I just didn't see what all the fuss was about. I hope they can write a better story/narrative for Avowed.

For those that like TB, that's OK, that's fine, but I'm trying to get Larian to EXPAND their horizons, don't get STUCK

Why Witcher3, Cyberpunk and not Elden RIng? All are openworld RPG - Elden Ring more of an "openworld" and "RPG" than those two. But be it your way:

Once again: no. Witcher3 and Cyberpunk77 are carried by the strength of their narrative, characters and engaging linear quest structure. They rely on strengths that Larian lacks. So far Larian achieved most success in systemic multiplayer sandboxes. Even if they ditch top down turn-based perspective I think they will do best to continue what they do well, rather than creating highly scripted narrative novels like CDPR does.

So, if they were to create a game under restriction of being First or Third person game, I think a more natural fit studio would be something similar to Arcane's output (Dishonored, Prey) - highly systemic sandboxes. Actually, upcoming Redfall might be something of that sort, depending how much of a shooter vs immersive sim it is - so far it looks like Vampire Farcry but with Arcane you never know.

Still, there would be danger in that. Due to robust simulation Arcane games traditionally are demanding power hogs. Also doing an action multiplayer experience could be more tricky than multiplayer turn based, which is forgiving when it comes to latency. Personally, I think it is up to Larian - do they want to create turn-based titles in the future? If they do, than I think they would be wise to continue. They achieved success, and have little to no real compeititon. Why push yourself into an overcrowded space, ruled by behemoth publishers, if you have carved your own comfortable and succesful nieche? If they did a "generic open world action game with RPG element would anyone care.

Coming back to Elden Ring, one can definitely make an enterance, but Elden Ring was build on bones of 6 (?) previous titles. Nothing Larian did so far prepared them for doing an openworld action game. No gameplay, engine, quest structure, story-telling to take with you.

Just a quick question ...
How would open world - real time - DnD based game ... differ from, i dunno, for example, Skyrim? O_o

That's the thing!

If only there were a multiplayer option...😕

There is a already an upcoming Dungeons Dragons MMO and it has thank god nothing to with Morrowind or Elder Scrolls. The reason I write so little about that MMO is that at this point very little is known but I know it is big budget MMO, Unreal 5 engine and developed in USA.

Here are the 4 UNREAL 5 Engine upcoming MMO:S that interest me;
Throne of Liberty aka Lineage 3 MMO. Unreal 5 engine and the only fantasy MMO game (that interest me) I expect full release in 2023. Unknown what will cost etc. slightly interested. but like calling it Lineage 3 instead. Release date: During 2023.
Voluntary PvP but my issues is with no classes and then PvE zerg farming bosses in outdoor dungeons and raids not balanced. Well and guess more or less buy to win elements could be included. Anyway beautiful game no doubt with Unreal 5 engine. In huge fights Lineage 3 reduce automatically graphics from what I have heard.

Ashes of Creation MMO with Unreal 5 graphics.
The ultimate PvP world. On downside not only voluntary PvP. Huge PvP battles possible example 500 vs 500 players and an Dragon in that area that can affect outcome with Unreal 5 engine and plans to not reduce graphics interesting to see how they manage to do this? We have had really big fights yes, but yet not shown 500 vs 500 players.
Hardcore old school type of MMO... Epic Raids and Dungeons instances. Slower levelup and progress.
Well not pay to win and subfee.
Release date: My guess year 2024 or 2025. During 2023 I do expect ALPHA 2 to come out and then lots of more information.

Dungeons Dragons MMO (Neverwinter ONLINE exist, but it is outdated) with Unreal 5 graphics. Developed in USA.
Release date?: Unknown Guess 2025-2028. Even the name is unknown for this MMO.

Riot (company developer of League of Legends and n other successful games) upcoming MMO. Unreal 5 graphics.
PvP will certainly be included more or less. Very unknown project, but huge budget. Will have Raids and Dungeons.
Release date?: Unknown Guess 2025-2028. Even the name is unknown for this MMO.

Unreal 5 only better graphics? No it runs better system performance. Despite excellent graphics better system performance for big /huge fights. It runs much better then Ray Tracing yet manage to look as good. It runs better then Unreal 4 engine huge fights. One of the effects that Unreal 5 manage with other technology do what ray tracing can do and with much less system requirements.

However I have got impression that FULL HD Unreal 5 engine is ok system requirements but if you try run it with 4k-8k well then oh boy you need excellent graphic card indeed.

and Terminator find a way to shill for unreal5 again.

Yes but this is not so good if 4K-8K... "However I have got impression that FULL HD Unreal 5 engine is ok system requirements but if you try run it with 4k-8k well then oh boy you need excellent graphic card indeed.";

Well If I play I think FULL HD (1920×1080) is fine for ok system requirements for me when I play Unreal 5 games.

Does it gave to? I loved Skyrim as millions still do to this day!

I hope you won’t be disappointed by your unreal5 games - tech demos tend to look nicer than anything that you can actually find in games. On part of not having to be a game and such.

So I guess I need to say, this thread is NOT about UR5.X or any other engine, its about game development aka narrative, story and how its presented.
But yes, UR5.x is the best at the present time.

I would like a more of a open world with over the shoulder camera and that's what I'm advocating for Larian but most of all to get out of the turn based strategy at least for some developed games, even the game I mention a few posts up "Sword Coast Legends" was a top down view but it had RTwP and even better, the skills you used were "cool down" based rather than the short rest/long rest replenishment type system. That's not to say that you could not have a camp system, to talk with your companions, flush out their story, romance, etc.... aka Dragon Age:Origins

I take it as it wouldnt.

That sounds awful. Moving away from "cool downs" is one of the improvements from D:OS1&2 that I appreciate very much.

The issue is, that cooldowns are a really boring mechanic most of the time - they remove any decisionmaking. Cool downs are available? You use them. Than wait for them to be usable again. Espacially D:OS2 suffered greatly from optimal strategy most of the time being about 4 turns long skill looks - a sequence of skills you would use over and over again as an optimal strategy. Origins was the same way - very poor combat system.

I am still waiting to hear what would be a benefit of Larian doing a type of game that you have multiple releases per year to choose from, while there is nothing like Larian's current RPGs on offer otherwise. I would even go so far, as to say that it is uniqueness of their releases that makes them stand out rather than the quality of their games - kinda like Bethesda. You can like or hate their games, and sure as hell you can criticise them, but there isn't anything being made quite like a Bethesda game.

Could another DnD MMO come up in development other then the already one in making?
I find it hard time Larian would suddenly decided to create a DnD MMO or some other company when one is already in very early making in USA with Unreal 5 graphics.

Now if Larian would make an expansion and later example increase party size to 6 in a separate DLC expansion from say 4 players to 6 even that is not so likely but much more likely then Larian starts MMO project in Dungeons Dragons MMO.

There has been silent on MMO front but there are already 4 upcoming fantasy MMO:S with Unreal 5 engine that I wait for and that list could grow.

Creating a MMO requires more budget and also typically much more development time even if not failure like Starcitizen MMO that seems eternity project. Well and then there is the competition of other MMOS. MMO:s are usually more time consuming games so many people play maximum one MMO at same time period.

Someone perhaps wishes for that players could create their own adventures like in Neverwinter Nights? That opportunity has passed. Neverwinter Online that is a pay to win MMO that I played at release date over 1.5 years had player created adventures. Much later I believe it was perhaps year 2019 they removed players created adventures my own theory so they could sell better their own DLC and stuff.

Do I know if upcoming Dungeons Dragons 5 MMO developed in USA with Unreal 5 graphics and high budget, will have so players can create adventures for other players? Very little is known about that MMO even then name is unknown and I have absolutely no information regarding this.

Could a none MMO game like BG3 make so that players can create their own adventures? Yes, but Larian has not said to my knowledge so far any such plans for BG3 that I know of at least.

I actually disagree, I think the immersion level of BG3 is much worse than that of BG1/2. That being said, my issues with immersiveness of BG3 have nothing to do with the combat system (turn-based vs RtwP etc.) and everything to do with the theme park-like map/level design of the game, missing day/night cycle, character writing ("you have reached a story checkpoint, pick a character to date / sleep with") and similar issues.

It falls short in aspects the previous games were good (if not great) at. Ignoring the graphics and some dated mechanics, games like BG1/2 or Fallout 1/2 managed (for the most part) to convey the experience of being a character in a living world that would continue existing without the player. Playing BG3 feels like being in some kind of LARP where eveything is focused on me as the player character, like Westworld with only one character (party of characters) for the android NPCs to focus at. Pretty sure those androids just turn off to save power when I'm not near...

There is still some (very little) hope that maybe the actual full game's world will be vastly larger / more spread out (in the sense that the druid grove that the goblins couldn't find won't actually be 30 seconds on foot from the goblin camp), but I'm not much of a believer.

I am okay with Larian keeping to their kind of RPGs and don't think they need to "stop" at all, but I would rather they didn't hijack a more famous franchise and make another Divinity game out of them. This could easily be a Forgotten Realms RPG, but it is not a Baldur's Gate game, regardless of name.

EDIT: OMG, UE5! UE5!!! UE5!!!11one The one UE5 game you can actually play rn is Fortnite and it looks like cartoony crap (although it does look better than before).

Well for the record I also like more say retro graphics like Solasta, Pathfinder games and Pillars of Eternity. In addition Diablo 4 also will be seen from different angle then from first person view. Well and yes I have played through Baldurs Gate 1 and 2.

Aha the first fantasy MMO that I wait with Unreal 5 graphics is Thone of Liberty MMO aka Lineage 3. It can maybe be pay to win and annoying to kingdom come with other methods, but I am pretty sure it will not look like cartoony crap and it should be released in 2023 latest by end of June.

I think you vastly overestimate the importance of an engine and underestimate the importance of actual hard work the artists, designers etc. have to put in regardless of the engine.

Obviously UE5(.1) is a massive leap forward, but the engine itself is not nearly as important as you (clearly, the amount of _completely_ offtopic mentions in your posts is insane) think. Crysis was way ahead of its time (also regarding hardware requirements, which might very well be an issue with those first UE5 games as well), nowadays it looks like crap (just ~2-3 years younger that it is, which _is_ impressive, don't get me wrong), whereas something like older Blizzard games still has endearing low-poly graphics that stood the test of time much better. In that sense, Fortnite might actually age well compared to other UE5 games (even though I really disliek the style).

Anyway, enough of this thread hijacking. Ignoring any UE5 posts from now on and back to the OP...