Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Suggestion for Ethel scenario/Knockout Interactions

Hey there! First time posting so forgive me if I'm a little bit fresh in these parts, but I was looking for a place to leave some feedback that might be helpful for the game's development but this one could be a real doozy if incorporated across the board for all sorts of other encounters (which may in itself be the reason for it's lack of implementation, but I'll explain in a moment).

So the scenario is this: I was trying to play a roleplay-like game as a Paladin when I ran into Auntie Ethel in the Druid's Grove. After talking with her, she suggested I go to her place which is exactly what I did first thing, so I bypassed the blighted village basically headed straight down there with the assembled party. When we encountered her and the brothers, I failed my insight check to tell that she was lying so the good roleplaying Paladin I was, I came to Ethel's rescue. Here's where things can get potentially complex for the game though.

I wasn't going to kill these guys for looking for their sister and being obviously distraught. Obviously something was wrong and I wanted to calm things down, so I turned on non-lethal attacks and knocked the two of them out. Keep in mind, at this point I haven't rested yet (short nor long) and head straight to her tea house. The conversation with her yields no additional dialogue options to account for the fact that the brothers weren't dead. Basically Ethel treated the situation as though I had killed them (and one of the brothers reacted similarly with his dialogue cry when I knocked the other one out while in combat). The closest I could get was a deception option where I said that Ethel was the one that actually killed them, but if the brothers are indeed dead then it wasn't by the hand of this Paladin.

Esentially what I'm looking for is the game to recognize when I use non-lethal knockouts for certain situations. If I choose not to kill a character (which is a function built into the game for what I assume is good reason) the game shouldn't be treating me as though I had. Now if you're looking for a storywriting suggestion to account for this particular encounter: You could add it where if you knock out a brother instead of continuing combat the other brother stops going hostile to check on his other brother. Then you can add a little bit more with Ethel giving your character a chance to go "back on the rails" so to speak for the rest of the encounter. The conscious brother is then able to give a similar conversation that occurs if you never fought in the first place and Ethel disappears as normal.

What this could do is now leave the lone brother a choice where the player might be able to influence the outcome: Either they take their brother back for some attention/rest and let you handle the hag and Mayrina or he decides to charge off and get himself killed as usual/who knows. I just feel like this could add a lot of depth to this encounter, and there could also be potential secret content down the line by doing stuff like this; because if you take a very nuanced approach to the game maybe later in Baldur's Gate you run into the whole family and they give some type of special reward since everyone walks out alive kinda idea. Like I said in the beginning though, I recognize that this potentially causes a problem game-wide rabbit hole of how to handle "saving" a number of characters that normally might die during most playthroughs. It's also asking the game to recognize and distinguish between who's actually dying and who's getting knocked out... Because there's going to be some guy (probably me) that then decides "HEY! I'm going to play the pacifist game where I never kill anyone and I only knock people out."

It's a can of worms... But potentially a really fun one for players. However, with release apparently in August I don't know how much time is left for this kind of stuff. Potential payout though is having something from the very beginning of the game yield fruits way later when the player least expects it. With so many characters in the first act heading to Baldur's Gate it feels as though we may run into them again someday. A workaround I had kinda figured in my head that might be relatively easy to implement as a "bandaid" to account for non-lethal attacks changing the outcome of scenarios (and this is a game/story-wide suggestion) is during certain dialogue encounters where things are about to go hostile, you could add lines from the narrator essentially reminding the player that non-lethal force can be used. My worry for doing this though is simply that you spoil the outcome somewhat by doing so by offering the player a choice for it instead of keeping it low key.

Anyhoos that's pretty well all I have to say on this for the time being. Thanks for reading!

- Mike

Totally agree. The game currently forces you to kill them.

I wouldnt be affraid to keep this in more general tone ...
There are other instances where game dont aknowledge that you actually didnt kill your targets ...

When i think about it, i would say that i know only one scenario where usage of non-lethal attack is noticed and that is against those two sibling cultists.

There certainly should be more.

Yes, definitely agree there should be more realistic ways to handle Mayrina’s brothers. I’m not sure that leaving them knocked out in a swamp full of goblins and redcaps is going to be much different from killing them, but if we could knock them out and then heal and talk some sense into them, or if as the OP suggests, the other brother will surrender if his brother is knocked out, that would feel more satisfying.

I know this has been discussed before, most recently maybe in https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=837100.

There are a few NPCs that are unfortunately destined to die in order to create drama and tension:

Several brain-washed cultists or prisoners on the Nautiloid, Kanon, Arka or Findal (at least one of them), Mayrina's brothers, Meerna in the Underdark? (I wasn't there yet, but heard rumors about it.)


For others, it's optional, based on our choices:

The enthralled fisherman (currently patched out)
Nymessa & Damays
Nettie
Arabella
Brynna & Andrick
Owlbear Cub
Gandrel
Auntie Ethel
Kagha

Then additionally depending on which faction you fight: Goblins, Tieflings, Druids, Zhents, Githyanki Patrol etc. pp.

Arka survives if you never open the door to the cell. I was surprised to see her when I came back from killing the goblins and just noticed I forgot to go in there. However, the knocked out druid in the cave was dead and the goblins with him were gone…

She was near Kanon’s grave with her brother, the blacksmith, etc.

Yes, I recall there was this thread about Arka a while back. Hopefully the fact that it pans out differently if you don’t speak with her before killing the goblin leaders means hers is one tragedy that won’t be necessary in the full release. Not that I mind unavoidable tragedies, as long as they make some kind of sense and our characters are able to take reasonable steps to at least try for a better outcome.

Ah thanks for pointing that out I edited my post. But is it possible to save Findal with this approach or is it just a swap of the NPCs that will die, so Findal instead of Arka or vice versa depending on the route you take?

Yeah, I tried this a long time ago and was disappointed with the results. But keep one thing in the back of your mind. The developers read everything we post. I've posted this and seen it several times too. Then add the fact that they're only giving us some of Act 1. They want the game to be fresh for everyone, even the addicts like myself. So to be honest, I think in this particular situation, we will have the ability to save the brothers, or at least knock them out and reunite them with Mayrina.

Or, if not, maybe once we give her the wand to resurrect Connor, she'll come back for them once she hides her zombie husband, lol. Also, if you choose Paladin... I do not recommend you bring a zombie into the world. ^^

I will be honest with you, I never considered it. If there is a way to go into the cave from the outside maybe. But I never tried.

Haven't tried saving them both as I didn't know it was possible to save Arka but there is an exterior door into the area with Findal along the path towards the village from the grove gate. So you could try going in that way to save him and then do the necessary to save Arka too.