Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - General Stat inflation is downright stupid.

I'm still a bit confused as to how this mod solves the problem of stat inflation causing your equipment to go out of date every single level. I found some numbers from the Nexus, and according to that person, this is what you currently see:

Level 1 sword: 4 - 5 damage
Level 1 health @ 10 vitality: 30

So you deal an average of 4.5 damage against 30 health, meaning it takes 30/4.5 = ~7 attacks to kill the enemy.

Level 30 sword: 1106 - 1169
Level 30 health @ 10 vitality: 30,680

You deal an average of 1088 damage against 30,680 health, meaning it takes 30,680 / 1088 = ~28 attacks to kill the enemy.

That same person's numbers for after you apply the mod:

Level 1 sword: 3 - 4 damage
Level 1 health @ 10 vitality: 25

This is still 25/3.5 = 7 attacks

Level 30 sword: 17 - 19
Level 30 health @ 10 vitality: 510

Again, this is still 510/18 = ~28 attacks

Doesn't this just mean the numbers are merely smaller, but the proportional upgrade between items per level is still the same?

Can not speak for the reduced scaling version of the mod but indeed I think it only reduces the bloat as mentioned (Reducing numbers)
Playing the no scaling version I can say that that is feels alot different and way smoother. Especially in regards of itemization (Uniques feel very important to hunt for i. e.) while other good items will follow you around for quite some time.
Given itemization is imho one of the worst parts of the game this helps tremendously.
On a side node though the balance shifts quite alot given that you are almost always rather good equipped yet combats feeling smooth and fast is also something some people seek.
Currently also using the double spawn mod in that play through with twice the number of foes and it goes rather easy.
Given I have an optimized Ranger Lone Wolf in the party I would most likely break any version of the game anyway.

No. The goal of this mod was to keep the ratio of damage to hp the same at each level, but make the difference in numbers between levels not as great.

Using your numbers.
Before Mod:
Lvl 1 weapon against Lvl 30 health: 6,858 attacks to kill.

After Mod:
Lvl 1 weapon against Lvl 30 health: 146 attacks to kill.

But that does improve itemization because with smaller numbers overall, a weapon can last longer, whereas in the mid-teens, apparently, two levels doubles the amount of damage a weapon does, meaning you are required to upgrade constantly or else you simply can't deal damage.

Yep, your observation is correct. That's the whole point of the mod. He's got another mod that removes vitality and damage inflation altogether.

As a life long Dungeons & Dragons player, then Dungeons & Dragons Online player from 2005 to current, the stat and combat math/gear issues mentioned in this thread are likely going to be deal killers for me to support this game.

Not sure yet... as Ive seen the great reviews ...

If, as I suspect from your self-intro as a D&D player, you have a soft spot for vibrant worlds and exploration and stories, then I would recommend not letting an ok combat system put you off. I'm having so much fun finding hidden treasures and surprising little story gems.

Yeah, the combat system is probably the weakest point in the game, but it's not terrible. You kinda get used to it, and after banging your head against the wall 20 times in frustration over initiative and AI, I promise you, the pain will get better.

im 100% sure it can all be cheesed.

Can't agree more with u.
I hate to be pushed updating my gear....stupid

Good thread, I agree the scaling is out of control. Kudos the Baardvark for being the all-star modder for this game

I think itemization must be a hard problem to solve, because I see case after case of games doing a poor job of it. I suspect too many are looking to Diablo when they should be looking to Baldur's Gate 2.

I would go a step further after fixing the scaling:
-Limit vendors to only stocking green items.
-Change lucky find to only create consumable stuff in containers. It makes no sense for epic weapons and armor to be sitting in fish barrels.

Then you would actually care when you picked up high tier loot from bosses and chests, which is how it should be! You couldn't make these changes now because you'd be horribly undergeared, but with the scaling under control it might be possible.

That would make lucky charm useless as a civil skill. Sinking the point that I get once every 3 levels or so into an ability that would give me a few extra water balloons and fire arrows? The whole reason why it's called lucky charm is because yes, it wouldn't make sense to find a sword in a haystack, that's why its lucky. Otherwise I do agree that rare items should be less common.

What kinda gets to me is that the scaling is apparently managed by just a few stats and is easily editable, as has been done in a number of mods.

So since everything seems to depend on this, it means that Larian actually tested the scaling and built everything in the game around being easily scaleable - by just tweaking these numbers, everything else scales to match.

This means that they consciously settled on this grotesque bloat that we're seeing, where a unique weapon on one level is completely trashed by another, run-of-the-mill weapon on the next, and where the numbers just get huge by the endgame, for no apparent reason.

Or did they just enjoy seeing the high numbers (which is apparently something people often appreciate as part of some imagined power-trip) without any regard for how this would affect the itemization scaling and so on?

While I can see some people not really caring about the bloat, while others react negatively to it, I have a hard time seeing any real reason as to why it would be good, or why Larian would settle on it in the interest of making the best possible game.

Is it intended to somehow force us to go hunt for gear every single level or something, or to inspire in us to adopt the attitude of disposability? I just think it's weird.I think this visualizes the point of the mod very well. I think that the base version of the mod might overdo it just a little bit (I'm currently trying the "moderate" instead, but I haven't played enough to comment), but having a much tighter range is wonderful. It doesn't feel like everything I do is completely invalidated in the next level, and actually finding something good feels.. good.

Before, it really felt like "Eh, whatever, it's not going to last long", but now when I find equipment with the bonuses I want, I may end up using that for a lot longer than I previously would've, simply because while it's generally worse in scaled stats, it still gives me things I want in addition to things I need (like armor).

The only potential "downside" to this is that since I'm not practically required to change my gear as often, build reliability is higher (which devs could consider negative, I guess, since it allows me to rely on certain bonuses from items whereas they might want me to deal with completely random bonuses out of necessity) and the gold economy is a bit more lax (since I don't have to spend so much gold anymore to keep ahead of the curve).

But overall, I think those are very reasonable trade-offs. Gold is relatively plentiful in the game anyway if you want it to be (it's a thief's life for me), and "too much gold" is a very small issue when standing next to the issue of constant re-itemization and numbers bloat.

If you make gear long lastingly viable, you can't be giving it out constantly via every 10th generic container.

The current lucky charm is bordering ridiculous. Having the rarity cap on the item based on the container might make it ok. IE: Barrels provide basic equipment: whites, consumables and crafting mats. Elite chests and bosses have a chance of producing high quality gear.

Other than thievery and lucky charm, the civil abilities are generally low impact. These proposals are meant to normalize that so that charm/thief aren't 1000x better than the rest of the available choices.

I'm finally hitting a point where stat inflation is staring to hit me. I never took Lucky Charm, and so the amount of good items I got for free by finding them has failed to outpace the power curve. My gear is several levels behind where it should be, resulting in a few one-shot-kills on party members.

Maybe I can get by via crafting and selling the crafted items, or I might have to ditch my equipment with modifiers and replace it with plain stuff for the armor value, or worst case, even start Act 2 all over again so I can respec my Barter character for Lucky Charm instead.

Yeah it really takes off in Act 2. You gain a level every 3 encounters and each level increases armor and damage by 20 and sometimes up to 50% (!!!!!). Considering a 4-man party is 40 equipment slots, it's completely crazy to expect you to be able to have level-appropriate gear during this phase.

Here are some of the stats that control this:

key "FirstVitalityLeapLevel","9"
key "FirstVitalityLeapGrowth","1.25"
(There are more of these level leaps later on to)

key "FirstPriceLeapLevel","9"
key "FirstPriceLeapGrowth","1.75"
(There are more of these level leaps later on to)

key "ArmorToVitalityRatio","0.55"
key "VitalityToDamageRatio","5"
key "HealToDamageRatio","1.3"

We can see the game then keeps these pillars in balance with each other using these ratios.

So at level 9 Vitality increases +25% more than normal and then Armor goes up to using the ArmorToVitalityRatio var.

First off the cuff and perhaps what one of the mods do, is where you see these LeapGrowths, just set them all to 1.00 and there is no bounce, same progression all the way through. This assumes these vars are for player and npc.

So I started to notice I was spending more time shopping for gear than actually adventuring, and realised it was down to the poor scaling. So I installed the "No Scaling" mod, and it's exactly what I think all RPG developers should be looking at implementing.
For example, Witcher 3 could really do with an equivalent mod to make gear remain relevant throughout the game's duration and allow for more options instead of being made irrelevant when levelling up.

While it has made DOS2 a much less interrupted experience, I do worry it's broken the difficulty, as most encounters now seem relatively trivial (it could just be that I all of a sudden got REALLY good, but I'm guessing not!). However, I would assume that to make encounters remain challenging while removing scaling would require a more extensive pass over all of the potential fights in the game, and this is probably too much to ask of a one-man mod team.

But even so, as proof that scaling systems really aren't needed in RPGs, it's really reassuring.

Exactly! The whole game is like... Hey, I'd love to help you with your little side-quest-thing, but I need to go shopping now... then a couple hours later... now what was it I was going to do!^#%$@!?

Personally i don't like seeing mobs with thousands of armor and health or having to change weapon and gear every time i level up, but since you can't make everybody happy about how some things on the game should be set up, I've started to tone it down with a bunch of mods. I think i'll try next the no-scaling mod.

So I've been playing more with the No Scaling mod, and I think it's near perfect. The big important encounters are still difficult, gear remains almost permanently relevant, with it being worth keeping around even early game uniques, and I'm no longer spending more time shopping than adventuring.
It's possibly a little too easy, but I suspect that even unmodded, with the abilities I have at this stage of the game it would be just as easy.