Originally Posted by Sanctuary
Dunno what to tell you. Rogues can use all of the same mobility skills that a Warrior can, but on top of that they not only get Cloak and Dagger earlier than Warfare gets Phoenix Dive (moot point if you simply dump two into Scoundrel with the Warrior, but early on it's harder to justify) and they start with Backlash, which is dagger only. That's 1 AP for moving 8m as as well as it giving you a backstab.


Ok, I think we are talking past each other here. I am not saying that Warriors have more mobility than Rogues - this is not the case because Rogues get both Warfare and Scoundrel, but what I am saying is that all of Warriors' mobility needs are covered by Warfare. Battering Ram might not be the tool for each situation but it is a tool for a situation, just like all of the other abilities I listed. Furthermore, 2 Handers have more range than daggers and there is no need to reposition for backstabs (which also annoyingly leaves you open for Attacks of Opportunity requiring further repositioning).

As for the Ranger, the concept is that IF a Ranger needs to reposition they need to waste AP to do it, whereas a Warrior's repositioning skill also deals damage - this is not wasted AP. The reality of it is that if you are using your AP for movement as a Warrior then you are doing something wrong because there are so many tools in the repertoire for changing your position.

Anyway, we are getting sidetracked here.

Originally Posted by Igniz13
I don't know where to begin.

1 magic scales with level, intelligence and skill. Getting items that boost those is way more important.
2. Mordus is undead, of course he has 200% resist to poison. Every undead does. They also take piercing damage from healing.
3. Mages do continuous damage through surfaces. If you're upset fireball does only 100 damage, but ignore people took 70 from walking out of the fire and applied burning which did more. You're not doing proper analysis of mage contributions.
4. There's so many ways to utilise environmental interactions, like using smoke to block los, oil, frozen terrain, etc that mages can be hard to quantify for value.
5. A caster only party will likely want a summoner to do physical damage with
6. Ideal party is 2 casters 2 physical look at armour values and priorities targets. It may actually be best to have 4 character's who do a bit of both to some degree. E.g. support mage who summons. Battlemage with physical and a backup school. A huntsman with elemental arrows and some magic and an offensive mage who can poly or whatever. Just so you can consistently distribute damage to targets.

I'm constantly annoyed at how the only pure physical character on my team can't do damage to characters with stripped magic armour likewise, when my dedicated offensive mage can only explode someone who's got an exposed physical armour.

People who don't run balanced teams must have huge issues with tons of gear they just can't use. I imagine they'd be constantly complaining about how they need to spend ages on itemisation and gearing people up to get better gear.


Hey man, I am not going to lie, I find your posts a bit puzzling. I made this thread because I believe that magical damage based classes are significantly weaker in this game than physical damage classes. I have played this game ALOT (misspelled for emphasis because this is what the cool cats do nowadays) and I find this notion difficult to disagree with. The reality of it is that physical classes do everything that magical classes do and more.

I have spent some time on this forum and I have come across various posts by different people complaining about different aspects of the game. Some people have their knickers in a twist about round robin Initiative. Is it perfect? No. Do the developers think it is perfect? No. Does it matter? No. It is a policy decision and the game works absolutely fine with it. A DOS:EE system is arguably worse. Other people complain about gear scaling. Again, is it perfect? No. Does it really matter? No. In my latest playthrough (on Tactician) I was in Arx and I realised that one of my characters was still wearing a level 3 Migo's Breastplate. The only items that actually matter in this game are weapons for physical damage dealers - for the rest you might as well be running naked so long as you have a proper build.

And this is the fundamental notion that I am getting at. Here are some basic premises: balance is good. Balanced difficulty is better than spiked difficulty. In this game, magic is strictly worse than physical. You may disagree with this, but in doing so you have to acknowledge that you are in the minority and fighting an uphill battle. So far I have not seen you put forth any credible arguments to support your position. Yes, magic scales with level, intelligence and skill. But so does physical, AS WELL AS with weapons. Yes, Mordus is undead and heals from poison. And from earth damage. It's cool for lore but shit for mages who deal poison and earth damage. No such issues for physical. Yeah my Fireball does 100 damage and an extra 70 tick for every step. Meanwhile, my Ranger does 1,000 physical damage. Terrain interactions are fun - this is why I am playing mage - but in a battle where the point is to eliminate the enemy, the ones who deal actual damage (physical) are better.

An ideal party is not two casters and two physical damage dealers. An ideal party is two/four physical damage dealers. How about this: I will do an Honour run with a physical damage team, you do an Honour run with a balanced team of two physical damage dealers and two mages. Let's see who gets further. Challenge accepted?

I have not yet mentioned the imbalance in talents. Magic damage dealers scale better with talents simply by the notion that they are crap in contrast to physical damage dealers. Savage Sortilage is great - but physical damage dealers already have it by default. Far Out Man is very good - again irrelevant for physical damage dealers. Picture of Health is insane - but only of value to physical damage dealers who scale with Warfare anyway. Elemental Affinity is also really good - let's be frank, every fight in a magical damage dealer party ends with the mages standing in a pool of fire. Mages need talents to be good - this is not achieved until the late game when everyone is good anyway. Physical damage dealers just need Executioner - the rest is irrelevant/cherry on top of the cake.