Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - Suggestions and Feedback Combat Sneak & Guerrilla: Find the Middle Ground!

Hey guys,

Long time player, first time poster. I am HUGE fan of Divinity and its lore. I am also a big time alt-oholic and spend vast amounts of time immersing in dialogue and connecting the dots in the giant web of cause-and-effect relationships between characters and events in Rivellon.

There are a lot of things I've seen people provide feedback on, some more tactful than others, but regardless of how valid they may or may not seem to me personally, I can still recognize that the feedback ultimately stems from a player's genuine interest in and love for the game. Personally, there are very few things in D:OS2 that turn me off. But today, I come here to finally express my concerns regarding the one thing I find utterly game-breaking for me (in this particular context): Combat Sneaking and, particularly, how it synergizes with Guerrilla. Before I go into why it needs to be reworked, let me say that I realize I can invest a little into Polymorph for Chameleon Cloak - This is all well and good, but it is merely a workaround for a problem, not an actual solution.

Those of us who played D:OS know how the Enhanced Edition came with a severe nerf to combat sneaking mechanics. For anyone who hasn't, it is apparent with a simple Google search of "D:OS sneaking." The plain and simple truth is that combat sneaking is not only severely underpowered relative to virtually every other potential combo in both games, but is essentially so underwhelming that it is nonviable.

As someone who assumes the rogue archetype in virtually every RPG I've ever had the luxury of playing, this is a HUGE turnoff. I've been through Fort Joy over a dozen times (easily) and seen first-hand how rogues compare to other classes. Sneaking is supposed to be the unique flavor of the archetype and provide for meaningful combat synergies and combos to suit the role, you know... to be thematically appropriate and immersive.

Let's take a short look at the numbers. Sneaking in combat used to cost 1 AP, and as long the player was able to successfully meet the sneak check and there was no direct line-of-sight to the rogue, could be accomplished successfully, even when standing directly next to or behind an enemy, or with other enemies nearby. As far as immersion goes, this is a bit counter-intuitive if we assume "sneaking" means effectively going invisible right before their very eyes (more on this later). I can admit that a 1 AP cost for such a powerful combo potential is overpowered.

However, 4 AP is way over the top. This is exactly how many AP a player character will start their turn with. This allows for no further action to be taken on this turn - no attacks, no movement, no skills - we can merely crouch and immediately end our turn, hoping that nobody happens to look in our general direction until our next turn. The only viable way to both sneak and use *any* sort of attacks or skills is to be a Lone Wolf (which I have tried) or to save AP for future turns, and even then it falls way behind the other archetypes in terms of AP efficiency and effectiveness in how that AP is spent. The end result is a meaningless Civil Ability and near-useless Talent, which are quite rare and valuable, I might add. Literally every other talent is more useful than Guerrilla; Save for being able to open an encounter with a sneak attack, it has no other meaningful purpose.

There has to be a middle ground here. As it stands, the rogue archetype is only viable when combined with other Combat Abilities. Don't get me wrong, I love me some diversification. But think for a moment about how limited the number of points to invest in Combat Abilities really are, and how much more meaningful the investment of those points is when it actually synergizes with our Civil Abilities and Talents.

I'd like to conclude with one different perspective on how combat sneaking could (and probably should) work in a game such as this. In many games, take Dungeons & Dragons for example, a "sneak attack" is not so literally defined. A sneak attack can, for all intents and purposes, really be about taking advantage of a weakness or openings in an opponent's guard, similar to how Flanking or Opportunity Attacks function. It doesn't have to mean that we are literally going invisible right before their eyes - so what if the visual effect is a guy (or gal) hiding in a bush or barrel - mechanically, that character is using their AP to take advantage of an opening in an opponent's guard. In this case, that simply means being behind them. Sure, we do have Backstabbing with daggers, but any class can use that now... a dual-wielding battlemage can simply use daggers instead of wands or strength-based weapons - so what does a rogue really bring to the table?

I believe that a 2 AP cost for sneaking in combat is appropriate. At this cost, a standard player character (non Lone Wolf) will still be forced to save AP across rounds to pack major punch for which sneak attack combos have potential, but it still allows for freedom of choice and flexibility. It stands to reason that a character destined for Divinity would be able to do more than perform a single squat in a round of combat. The remaining 2 AP (assuming again a standard character, without buffs) can be used for buffs, movement, or a single attack, or perhaps even saved for the next round to be used in a potentially larger and more deadly combo.

That's all I've got folks. Sorry for the long post, I appreciate you taking the time to read it. Larian - please revisit combat sneaking and the Guerrilla talent. I've beaten the game and I've seen what it throws at us - take a moment to consider how the archetypes stand up to each other and how underpowered the rogue is compared to other archetypes.