It's good to see there are others who find combat sneaking and guerrilla to be lackluster. I suspected that it was disappointing for others too (obviously I can't be the only person who enjoys playing a rogue!) but aside from a random reddit post here or there asking if it was worthwhile, I didn't see anything that really outlined the details of why this system allows for the rogue archetype to pale in comparison to other builds. So, I'm glad I made this post, as it clearly has given a few people a chance to share their thoughts on how to improve the system, or at least point out the more disappointing drawbacks.
I guess this serves mostly as a bump post, since I can easily agree with everything that's been stated here. A few points I can pick out of the above posts, just to add my two cents:
- Glass Cannon is a really neat talent, definitely serves a purpose and makes for interesting (and dangerous) builds. A rogue should, however, be able to fulfill his or her role respectably without being required to use Glass Cannon. As cool as it is, using it should be adding more powder to the keg of an already powerful, albeit traditionally squishy, character.
- Rogues have always been "overpowered" from a damage perspective in RPGs I've played, but typically exceedingly squishy. The potential for near-instant death by choosing to engage in a particularly dangerous situation is part of what makes the role interesting to play (risk/reward trade-off). A player with a strong knowledge of game mechanics and who has devoted a respectable amount of time to their build may be able to counter this more often than not, but it's still dangerous and squishy by default usually. I'm OK with a rogue's damage being a bit overpowered. It's not like other archetypes in D:OS2 are falling behind, they are in fact arguably more powerful in many cases than a rogue anyway, as illustrated by a few of the former posts (and I can attest to this, I have 2H warrior that totally wipes the floor with everything with ease).
I found this segment to particularly insightful:
So... in order to give my post a bit more value, I'm thinking, maybe we get a new ability that lets you enter stealth, which *cannot* be broken by vision. 1-AP cost. 1-turn cooldown. Lasts indefinitely or until canceled. No movement speed penalty. How likely you are revealed by taking damage depends on your Scoundrel rank. All stealthed attacks do bonus damage, regardless of angles. Then, we'd probably need some countermeasures... Like certain enemies can see through stealth... and so on. Quite a bit of work would need to go into the AI. Well I did say that it's not a simple task to implement this whole mechanics satisfyingly right?
I really think you're on to something with this idea, and I hope that Larian will see this and run with it. Even if it's not how you've stated it to the letter, the sneaking system overall is in need of makeover. Understandably, changes to that system are going to have a ripple effect on other aspects of the game and will need to be balanced. But your suggestions of having NPCs with innate abilities to detect stealth, or perhaps adding it on to something like Peace of Mind, would really add an interesting and fair counter to something with so much damage potential. I want to avoid spoiling anything if possible just in case someone happens upon this, but I think it's safe to suggest that since there are characters in Rivellon capable of detecting the source within others, that seeing through sneak isn't really a far-fetched concept. It's actually quite thematic and appropriate in a lot scenarios.
Thanks for the support everyone! I hope that the developers stumble upon this and make some changes as a result. I love this game, am going to continue playing it both solo and multi-player campaigns with my friends, and one of my buddies is a DM for dnd5e and has decided to build a campaign for us here in D:OS2 as well. I'm really looking forward to that, although I was planning to play a rogue in that campaign and may forego that decision now.
