Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - Suggestions and Feedback [Suggestion] Improving Abilities and Attributes

Hey guys,
During my playthrough, I noticed that attributes and abilities are a little too simple. I mean is not bad, but it would be cool if they add news effects to them. Also, investing more than 5 points on some abilities only increase the damage that you do, so maxing out an ability are not that meaningful.
So, here are my suggestions to improve the abilities and attributes.

[b]Attributes[/b]

STR - 5% Damage -> 5% Damage and 0.5% Physical Armor (if you have 100 PA, 40 points on STR increase that amount to 115 PA)
FIN - 5% Damage -> 5% Damage and 0.5% Dodging
INT - 5% Damage -> 5% Damage and 0.5% Magical Armor
CON - No Changes
MEM - No Changes
Wits - 1% Crit and 1 initiative -> 1.5% Crit, 1 Initiative and 0.5% Crit Damage

I don't know if that will make the game too easy, especially using Lone Wolf... Maybe decrease the damage by 1% to accommodate the new effects.

[b]Abilities[/b]
At level 10, I think that the abilities should some passive to make investing heavily on them worthwhile.

Pyro - Increase the burning damage, [s]increase the duration by 1 turn[/s] and have a chance to spread to nearby enemies every turn
Hydro - [s]Increase frozen duration and[/s] Have a chance to shatter frozen enemies below 10% HP
Geo - [s]Upon death, enemies release a poison cloud[/s] Geomancer spells now inflict damage to both physical and magical armor at a reduced damage
Aero - Each turn, a bolt of lightning strikes a nearby enemy
Hunt - The first attack against a enemy mark him. Until he dies, you do increase damage against him (you cannot mark more than one target)
Scoundrel - Each attack inflict a stacking bleed effect for 1 turn
Warfare - When you are attacked in melee range, you attack back
Polymorph - [s]Dunno[/s] Increase the duration of your spells
Necro - Enemies around you are weakened
Summoning - The only one that already have a special effect at level 10

What do you guys think?

Not bad. There would of course need to be balance adjustments, but not bad.

The only one I have a real objection to is the Geo "Poison cloud on death", as that could just as often be a detriment as a benefit, and some others seem like they might be a little OP, but we are talking rank 10 here.

[quote=Stabbey] Not bad. There would of course need to be balance adjustments, but not bad.

The only one I have a real objection to is the Geo "Poison cloud on death", as that could just as often be a detriment as a benefit, and some others seem like they might be a little OP, but we are talking rank 10 here. [/quote]

Now that you mention it... Maybe, a better effect will be something like this: "Geomancer spells now inflict damage to both physical and magical armor". Not full damage to each type of armor of course, but something in between half and 2/3 of the original damage to each. Or some other effect...
Also, I think adjusting the values of the effects, can make them less OP.

This is a pretty welcome idea and I applaud any efforts put towards fixing Character Building in D:OS2 (something I'm having a harder and harder time dedicating myself to) so I'll try to throw my two cents in.

On the topic of Ability Capstones:
If we take Summoning as an example, 10-Point capstones should be an alteration to existing mechanics and the central aspect of that Ability (In Summoning's case, making their central summon bigger and better), so I would try and move past just being thematic and try to tie these capstones closer to their sources in a way that both makes them desirable and significantly alters or empowers the way you play that character.

Here's some examples:
Pyro 10: Your spells and attacks automatically Critically Hit against foes that are Burning or are in Fire.
This drastically increases damage, Pyro's main focus, in a conditional way that plays off of Pyro's terrain generation and key status; and does so in a way that opens up further synergy with other Critical-oriented playstyles.

Scndrl 10: Whenever you score a killing blow, you become Invisible for 1 turn. Damage dealt while Invisible is increased by 40%.
This is tightly bound to Scoundrel's high single-target burst damage and mobility, further promoting these aspects by allowing the user to be rewarded for their investment with increased mobility, safety, and damage potential.

On the topic of your Attribute Changes:
Your benefits are too small, realize that a player will naturally only benefit from 25~ (60~ on an optimized Lone Wolf, but remember that this is its own issue, I would focus on non-LW balance first) Attribute Points by endgame. Don't be afraid to give players a little more bang for their buck (+1% Dodge, +2% Crit, etc).

I would also move the Armor-based benefits solely to Con, providing +2% (at least) to both for each point invested in it; and I say this for a variety of reasons (lopsided armor already being a player weakness, CON needing the love, etc)

@GreatGuardsman, the two abilities capstones that you suggested are a great idea. Also, the reasoning behind then are a very good one.
When I thought on values I was too concern that the effects would be a little too strong. But you have a good point. CON and Wits doesn't provide as good effects as the other attributes at current state. So, maybe is better to maintain STR/FIN/INT as is and add other effects to CON and Wits (and Memory).

1% dodge per FIN would require a big revamp to the other sources of Dodge, because right now I am at like 50% dodge even without a hypothetical bonus to dodge from FIN. Half a point is fine, a Max-Fin build would still get a good +15% dodge.

But 1% Armor per STR/INT would also be fine, that's +30% Maxed.

I also agree with +2% each armor per CON point.

I love this write-up and your suggestions. I think most of them are really good ideas. But since you asked for feedback, here are my thoughts:



Instead of a chance to spread the burning status effect, have burning enemies leave a trail of fire, or "bleed fire," similar to Fire Slugs.



Love it!



Keep the damage as-is, but add in a chance to apply Acid with every Geomancer skill, as well as poison and earth damage from weapons. Also, the poison cloud idea is awesome, but I think it should be a small one.



- How about lightning retaliation instead? Allow it to scale with Savage Sortilege as well so that it can crit, and chain a maximum of 2-3 times (but does not distinguish between friend and foe).



Love it!



Love it!



Love it!



+15% to all resistances



How about a Decaying Aura? Perhaps one that only applies to enemies within range. Another idea would be to have a small chance for killing blows to instantly resurrect the enemy as an undead ally for X turns.



This one is great already. The "super incarnate" is really badass-looking and packs a decent punch. But the crafted infusion skill books make them even more badass.

LOL! I totally disagree! There's already a "Bleed Fire" skill, which is literally the most worthless spell in the game because you never want enemies to run around at random spreading fire everywhere.




Applying acid seems like a nice idea. As I said, the poison cloud is not because it's super situational and can backfire.




The Polymorph and Enemy-only Decaying Aura ideas are pretty cool.

[quote=Autolycus]

[quote=nlg550]
Geo - Upon death, enemies release a poison cloud. Geomancer spells now inflict damage to both physical and magical armor at a reduced damage
[/quote]
Keep the damage as-is, but add in a chance to apply Acid with every Geomancer skill, as well as poison and earth damage from weapons. Also, the poison cloud idea is awesome, but I think it should be a small one.

[/quote]

Acid is good idea and should provide a similar effect that I was aim for (and I think is simpler to implement too)

[quote=Autolycus]

[quote=nlg550]
Polymorph - [s]Dunno[/s] Increase the duration of your spells
[/quote]
+15% to all resistances


[quote=nlg550]
Necro - Enemies around you are weakened
[/quote]
How about a Decaying Aura? Perhaps one that only applies to enemies within range. Another idea would be to have a small chance for killing blows to instantly resurrect the enemy as an undead ally for [i]X[/i] turns.
[/quote]

Both are great ideas. It suits better their respective schools

[quote=Autolycus]

[quote=nlg550]
Pyro - Increase the burning damage, increase the duration by 1 turn and have a chance to spread to nearby enemies every turn
[/quote]
Instead of a chance to spread the burning status effect, have burning enemies leave a trail of fire, or "bleed fire," similar to Fire Slugs.
[/quote]


Fire trail sounds very awesome on paper, but Stabbey make a good point. Creating random fire surfaces can backfire super easily


[quote=Autolycus]

[quote=nlg550]
Aero - Each turn, a bolt of lightning strikes a nearby enemy
[/quote]

- How about lightning retaliation instead? Allow it to scale with Savage Sortilege as well so that it can crit, and chain a maximum of 2-3 times (but does not distinguish between friend and foe).
[/quote]

Because it can hit your party members, could have some side effects like stunning them. But, I like the idea to hit more than 1 enemy

Note that Chain Lightning can hit your allies as well, but it's a powerful spell and I use it all the time. Early on in Act II armor values tend to be fairly low, so using it can backfire relatively easily. But later on the Chain Lightning doesn't make much of a difference to hit an ally (plus it's thematic), especially with proper planning (I presume I'm not the only person initiating combat on my own terms?)

Burning and Necrofire haven't proven to be all that punishing imo, so I say spread it around. For a Lone Wolf none of this matters anyway. Bleed Fire is only "useless" because it takes a memory slot. If it were a free bonus for someone whose entire theme revolves around setting fire to everything, it's thematic and appropriate, not to mention convenient.

The only time I was genuinely averse to spreading fire was against the fire slugs very early on in Act I. Otherwise, I welcome pretty much all environmental effects as they help me kill things and can be used to self-buff. Surrounded by oil? Oily Carapace. Forgot to put nails in your shoes? Cryotherapy. Just don't feel like walking through that mess? Throw Dust. And then just in case things get really hairy, there is Cleanse Wounds. Not to mention the source-based Flaming Skin and the like, which grant invulnerability and grant Bleed Fire anyway.

I'm not saying that every character is going to want it or use it, but that should be implied since every character isn't going to run 10 points into Pyro or Aero.

Yeah, I don't care how unimportant you believe it is, I'm still going to disagree with the idea of level 10 bonuses which can hit allies or can have unpredictable downsides like fire trails and poison clouds.

Typical forum warrior.

Stabbey has a point here: You should be rewarded for investment, not potentially punished or forced to put up with janky mechanics.

Indeed that is a fair concern and a valid point. As to whether or not it is a punishment or janky is debatable, however.

One perspective is that a high investment into a skill class should be guaranteed positives, and labels the suggestions as negatives due to an aversion to environmental risk. Another perspective suggests that environmental mechanics are inherently neutral and can be both positive and negative, though I would add a caveat to exclude Deathfog as there is no way to use it to one's advantage in any scenario (at least that I've seen).

I subscribe to the latter, and suggest that familiarity with mechanics and proper preparation and group composition mitigate at least some of the inherent risk surrounding abilities with friendly fire potential. The smaller the party, the less relevant this becomes, and the more likely one would devote this many points to a single class.

However, objectively-speaking, the degree to which we vary in our opinions of the dangers of environmental damage is not the subject of the thread. The only difference between my suggestion and standard skills is that it requires a heavy investment into the skill class. I agree that this is a logical justification for exploring an alternate suggestion, however I do not see any alternate suggestions. I like the OP's suggestion, but what are some other rank-10 Pyro bonuses that may be appropriate?

I personally like the idea for high-risk, high-reward bonus, but can be also very frustrating if it used against you. One example is the Glass Cannon talent on D:OS II: sure, having 6AP per turn is great, but being CC every turn is not. Anyway, creating more elemental terrains can create very interesting strategies or combos, that why I suggest the poison cloud on death.

@GreatGuardsman, suggested a good idea to rank 10 Pyro: "Your spells and atttacks always crit on people on fire surface or burning"