Thanks for the reply, I just checked and poison dart is still blocked by magic armor, surfaces as you say don't go through either, rainfall into contaminate is how I do it, I haven't even check the duration of it yet. I have tried it in single and multi player and it is still broken. I am playing the DE version but am picking classic as my difficulty, is that somehow just putting me in classic mode? Sorry to ask again but this is really Shivering my Timbers!