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Hmm, can't really comment on 4e, never played it myself. I won't claim to have a butt-load of experience in 5e either but after preparing to DM a 12ish hour one-shot I realized the balance here is very fickle.

Most classes have things to do as bonus actions: for spell casters some spells are bonus actions, though you are limited in what you can do as an action if you cast a spell as a bonus action, while monks, bards and rogues have very good action economy in regards to using their bonus action. The warrior is the most shafted in this case (which is why I'm rethinking my stance on shove bonus action) - pretty much the only thing he gets by default is second wind, though different archetypes or feats can give him other options.

Discussing balance around wish is like discussing RTwP vs TB on these forums - meaning better not if you value your sanity wink

One last thing I've noticed in the gameplay that I don't like and would like everyone's opinion though: you can ONLY use bonus action to perform certain abilities (for example hide as I've pointed out earlier) - do you think this is the way to go? I personally don't even like spells that can only be cast as a bonus action (meaning it can't be cast as an action) but for things like hide or whatever I feel like it's limiting the normal action way too much - it's basically making you have 2 different types of action that are both valuable in different ways instead of clearly showing one (action) is better.
Going back to the fighter, a change here would be that he uses his bonus action to shove his target to get him prone. If he fails that, he should also be able to use one of his attacks to try again imo.

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Originally Posted by Sordak
Well i dont use 5e a lot so im used to systems that have "Minor actons" and not just bonus actions.
in 4e, drinking a potion is a minor action IIRC.


I think the Pathfinder 2 of 3 actions per turn would translate much better into a computer game.
But since the choice of 5e and turn-based combat is set in stone, I'd really like to have build compatibility and not more rule changes than necessary.


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The throwing of objects certainly is odd as a bonus action. i still like it because it gives you more to do, im not a fan of 5e specifically because actions like this almost always are worse than doing a full attack.


But that's the problem - having a very strong bonus action like a dagger throw or grenade throw makes it mandatory to use.
You'll be forced to always throw an oil flask before casting a fire spell, if you want to stay competitive (important in multiplayer).

It would also look goofy if our archers alternated between arrows and thrown daggers in most encounters!

Last edited by Tomice; 01/03/20 08:22 PM.
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Over a 100,000 people play-tested 5e back in 2012-2013, one would hope it wouldn't be necessary to do it all over again.

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This is a little bit of a tangent, but what are your thought on laying your bow in a fire and then using it afterwards ? Hell he even put it on his back. At one point in the video I even saw him put the bow up to a candle? this is odd IMO

Ive played dnd since the mid 70's never heard of being able to do this. Does anyone know if this is a 5th edition feat? or is this just Larian.

-Doom

Last edited by Doomlord; 02/03/20 06:28 AM.

DRAGON FIRE-AND DOOM Dragons? Splendid things, lad-so long as ye look upon them only in tapestries, or in the masks worn at revels, or from about three realms off...
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Originally Posted by Tomice
First, I'm really excited for the game, it looks great!
I'm personally totally fine with their general, large scale design decisions, but I also preferred Pathfinder Kingmaker with the turn-based mod.

There is one thing that worries me, though:

Making things like shove, throw and jump bonus actions looks fun at first, but it breaks any kind of balance.
Any ambitious player will try to not only perform an attack each turn, but he'll also try to somehow perform an useful bonus action:
Attack + throw random item
Attack + shove someone over a cliff
Attack + jump out of melee range
Attack + .....

This looks good in a short gameplay presentation, but long-term???
How should combat be considered serious if I have no chance to hit twice with my sword during a turn (on level 1), but I can run around, jump around, throw my boots, throw a flask of oil, shove someone over a cliff....

The fact that quite a few of these bonus actions cause damage (e.g throw bottle of oil, then ignite with fire arrows) makes them mandatory for optimized play.

I'd hate to see build optimization guides that focus on creative bonus action usage in adition to "boring" normal attacks/spells!
(to be clear: shoving/throwing as action INSTEAD of an attack is totally fine)

On a related note:
Jumping shouldn't automatically prevent attacks of opportunity!
That's what the disengage action is for (or certain spells).


The first thing I thought was,I'm gonna need all those white crappy weapons in order to throw 1 each turn as a bonus action. I think they added it as a bonus action because otherwise you wouldn't use it as much and they want to show how very D&D the game is.


Originally Posted by Doomlord
This is a little bit of a tangent, but what are your thought on laying your bow in a fire and then using it afterwards ? Hell he even put it on his back. At one point in the video I even saw him put the bow up to a candle? this is odd IMO

Ive played dnd since the mid 70's never heard of being able to do this. Does anyone know if this is a 5th edition feat? or is this just Larian.

-Doom


As a writer said in an interview ''we follow the rule of cool,if we think it's cool we add it'' but yes,it feels a bit overpower,you should need at least to waste a bottle of oil in order to lit the arrow on fire with a candle (an arrow,not the bow)
Iirc the dip action last 3 turns from what i saw on the demo (so I guess 18 seconds out of combat)

Last edited by Adgaroth; 02/03/20 06:46 AM.
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Originally Posted by Sordak
originally they even said that they would take out MISSING ATTACKS from the game.
Obviously they went back on that, but they never said theyd port the system 1:1

Actually, that it not the case. There was an interview, and as an example of adapting the rules for a computer game, it was mentioned that with bad luck, at low levels you could miss a lot, and that was not fun alone on a computer, compared to the table top environment where you are at least interacting with your friends.
Many people just interpreted doing something about possibly missing a lot at low levels to mean that there could never be anything that misses, for any reason. I suspect there could be some overlap with the people now saying BG3 looks exactly like D:OS 2.

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Do we know if shove and jump require pathetic or acrobatic checks

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Originally Posted by wpmaura
Do we know if shove and jump require pathetic or acrobatic checks


I've seen the characters taking damage after a jump and going prone,so I guess there's a check,you don't ''fail'' tho, you go where you wanted but take dmg

Last edited by Adgaroth; 02/03/20 09:39 AM.
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