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Originally Posted by korotama
Originally Posted by Blade238
If they don't end up adding a day/night cycle then it'll be pretty disappointing. It's 2020, Larian has grown a bit since DOSII and different monsters/races behave differently at night. I hope they've at least added the potential for camps to be attacked at rest and for certain races (Elves for instance) to gain advantages at night since they require less sleep and have better night vision.

Sorry man but they want this game to be as true to 5E DnD as possible.

That's what I'm saying though, 5E has nocturnal creatures, certain races have better advantages at night time, etc.

The 5E ruleset has certain races with the racial trait of "Darkvision" and Elves have a racial trait of "Trance" in which they get the benefits of sleep that other races get, with half of the time and not truly sleeping. Night time is even a part of 5E.

If they want it as true to 5E DnD as possible, they'd have certain occurrences at night time, if not a day/night cycle, then at least something involving the camp system.

Edit: I'm glad we've been able to converse without the drama that's been going on this forum BTW. It's appreciated!

Last edited by Blade238; 08/03/20 04:24 PM.
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Originally Posted by Blade238
Originally Posted by korotama
Originally Posted by Blade238
If they don't end up adding a day/night cycle then it'll be pretty disappointing. It's 2020, Larian has grown a bit since DOSII and different monsters/races behave differently at night. I hope they've at least added the potential for camps to be attacked at rest and for certain races (Elves for instance) to gain advantages at night since they require less sleep and have better night vision.

Sorry man but they want this game to be as true to 5E DnD as possible.

That's what I'm saying though, 5E has nocturnal creatures, certain races have better advantages at night time, etc.

The 5E ruleset has certain races with the racial trait of "Darkvision" and Elves have a racial trait of "Trance" in which they get the benefits of sleep that other races get, with half of the time and not truly sleeping. Night time is even a part of 5E.

If they want it as true to 5E DnD as possible, they'd have certain occurrences at night time, if not a day/night cycle, then at least something involving the camp system.

Edit: I'm glad we've been able to converse without the drama that's been going on this forum BTW. It's appreciated!

As far as I know neither D:OS title had a day/night cycle and even though they claim BG3 is running on a largely rewritten engine.. well.. I'll save that for my next write-up. Maybe there would have been more drama on my part a few months ago but at this point I'm just laughing it off. Tempered my expectations a great deal. You're welcome.

Last edited by korotama; 08/03/20 04:43 PM.
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While allowing the party to be split up, with some in real time and some in turn based combat, does cause issues with syncing a day/night cycle, that isn't really critical.
The main problem is just the added complexity for doing a day/night cycle properly, on top of already complex scripting and narrative. With level design every NPC needs a place to go at night, those places need contents, etc.

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Originally Posted by Raze

While allowing the party to be split up, with some in real time and some in turn based combat, does cause issues with syncing a day/night cycle, that isn't really critical.
The main problem is just the added complexity for doing a day/night cycle properly, on top of already complex scripting and narrative. With level design every NPC needs a place to go at night, those places need contents, etc.


I don't find the lack of day/night essential, and the reason you give seems sound. But, if every board/act didn't take place in the daylight, then extra scripting wouldn't need to be done. For example, Arx could have been in a night time setting without having a need for any more scripting and assets than was needed for the day (maybe even less). Just a little variety .

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Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by Raze

While allowing the party to be split up, with some in real time and some in turn based combat, does cause issues with syncing a day/night cycle, that isn't really critical.
The main problem is just the added complexity for doing a day/night cycle properly, on top of already complex scripting and narrative. With level design every NPC needs a place to go at night, those places need contents, etc.


I don't find the lack of day/night essential, and the reason you give seems sound. But, if every board/act didn't take place in the daylight, then extra scripting wouldn't need to be done. For example, Arx could have been in a night time setting without having a need for any more scripting and assets than was needed for the day (maybe even less). Just a little variety .

That could still happen. Making a map perma day and perma night is not a cycle. They only said there would be no time-changing cycle.

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Yeah, exactly. If there isn't to be a cycle, at least have a variety.

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Originally Posted by Raze

While allowing the party to be split up, with some in real time and some in turn based combat, does cause issues with syncing a day/night cycle, that isn't really critical.
The main problem is just the added complexity for doing a day/night cycle properly, on top of already complex scripting and narrative. With level design every NPC needs a place to go at night, those places need contents, etc.


And these were insurmontable difficulties?

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Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Originally Posted by Raze

While allowing the party to be split up, with some in real time and some in turn based combat, does cause issues with syncing a day/night cycle, that isn't really critical.
The main problem is just the added complexity for doing a day/night cycle properly, on top of already complex scripting and narrative. With level design every NPC needs a place to go at night, those places need contents, etc.


And these were insurmontable difficulties?

Technically, you could make time go by despite being locked in turn-based combat. Would it be immersion-breaking to anyone? I don't know.

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Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
And these were insurmontable difficulties?

They became unmanageable for D:OS, and the feature had to be cut. Given enough time and resources it could certainly be done. With finite resources available (even if larger than D:OS), it wasn't feasible on top of the other changes and updates being made for BG3.

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Why they say day/night cycle is incredibly complex for a multiplayer game? Because of what reason?

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Originally Posted by Raze

While allowing the party to be split up, with some in real time and some in turn based combat, does cause issues with syncing a day/night cycle, that isn't really critical.
The main problem is just the added complexity for doing a day/night cycle properly, on top of already complex scripting and narrative. With level design every NPC needs a place to go at night, those places need contents, etc.


And Larian would be the very first developer who does this? Especially sad when you can play as a drow but you dont have dsy/night cycle. Even BG had this and it's 20 years old. Some statements really sound like you didn't even try to do something else than your last game. Also audio in different languages. Tons of games have it, but larian of course not

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Different companies with different projects / game engines / etc can prioritise features differently.
When BG3 is released, I'm not sure you'll be able to list tons of games game which implemented the same features, in as much depth, in addition to a day/night cycle.

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Originally Posted by Raze

Different companies with different projects / game engines / etc can prioritise features differently.
When BG3 is released, I'm not sure you'll be able to list tons of games game which implemented the same features, in as much depth, in addition to a day/night cycle.


Interesting. Feel free to elaborate, please. I think I heard "photogrammetry", whatever that means.

Last edited by Dark_Ansem; 09/03/20 09:12 AM.
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Originally Posted by Nickolaidas
This sucks and takes away from the immersion quite a lot.


This is the key issue. Having the ambience of night time contrast with day time, and all the NPCs doing different things matters in an RPG.

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Originally Posted by Full Bleed
I understand and, grudgingly, accept their explanation. The day/night cycle (which I do think is very important to have when simulating a *real* D&D game) would be disruptive to their current method of story-telling (which is, judging by DOS2, likely to be a really well done, and fairly linear progression of connecting a variety of story way-points.)

That means that they will, likely, simulate some night events to create some variation. But, lets make no mistake, it will be the poor-man's faux night.

I see no reason that they won't be able to pull off an amazing story/game without a persistent day/night cycle... but in as much as it conflicts with their current method of story-telling I hope they realize that it is a self-inflicted wound. With luck, the foundation laid in BG3 will allow them to expand BG4 to include proper day/night cycles (even if it's only through portions of the unfolding adventures.)


Its the writers getting in the way of their own story. So many games fall into this trap of creating "the most epic story" that they dont let the players adventure for themselves. Its not a book (which is ironic because in a book the immersion would shatter completly if the writer ignored the 24-hour cycle) but an interractive medium. Things like needing to rest, stocking up on supplies, being more wary during night times... shit like that might seem mundane and tedious but if handled correctly only adds to the experience of playing an RPG.

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Day/night cycle, dynamic weather, NPCs with routines, NPCs that react to the weather etc..
Pillars Of Eternity Deadfire has all these details and more.
WoTC should have chosen Obsidian to make BG3 frown

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Originally Posted by Erwin Smith
WoTC should have chosen Obsidian to make BG3 frown

I'd be interested to see the reaction if BG3 was done in the style of TOW. I loved TOW, but do BG fans love it...?


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And considering how PoE2 underperformed and we might not see PoE3, it seems that not going traditional way is a smart financial move.

WotC gave licence to Larian precisely because of what they were doing, not in spite of it.

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Assuming TOW stands for The Outer Worlds, would they make BG 3 a first person shooter? Wouldn't that be special. I'm sure the 'True BG fans' would love that!

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Originally Posted by Ignatius
Assuming TOW stands for The Outer Worlds, would they make BG 3 a first person shooter? Wouldn't that be special. I'm sure the 'True BG fans' would love that!

biggrin


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