Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Why not raise the lv cap to at least 13?

Turning this rant into something on topic.

I think that the same issues of Infinity Engine and Baldur's Gate purists exist for BG3. There are people, especially on the Steam forums, who just will not let the fact that the game is four person party (that we know of) and TB rather than RTwP somehow disqualifies it from being a Baldur's Gate game.

I can say with some confidence that there will be people who buy this game just to give it a negative review because it isn't perfectly what they want a Baldur's Gate game to be.

I bought all the Beamdog updated versions of IE games both to support them in what they were doing and to have easy access to them should I want to replay them.

I have not ignored SOD because of reviews; I would not expect a game in a 20 year old engine to be particularly special, so I would not expect it to review well either.

But I also have little interest in new games being written in really outdated engines. There are clear limits to what Beamdog can do with IE, and I prefer they put their efforts into improving newer engine tech, which is what they are doing.

I don't ignore SoD, but it does give a few good lessons on what not to do. It's like having a DM in a D&D campaign who just railroads the party because they have a story and they're sticking to it. It also has challenges for the players that are fun and engaging but don't make narrative sense since it takes place between BG1 and 2. We go from fighting dragons and devils to getting kidnapped and fighting goblins.

I think Siege of Dragonspear's biggest problems is its narrative dissonance since it was just kind of put in between two games.

True. Beamdog knew where they started and knew where the game should end because there was already a game right after that in the time line, hence the railroading. But we ALL knew that going in, so every body acting pissed because it's too linear, honestly, what did you expect? We all already knew the ending, dont act surprised🤦‍♂️

I'm not surprised at all, merely voicing an issue with Siege of Dragonspear. The Baldur's Gate games are still fun, there are plenty of creatures in the Underdark, not all are meant for higher level parties.

I mean, I just look at Critical Role. The very first arc they streamed in Campaign 1 took them to the Underdark where they were fighting Durogar and infiltrating a city of Mind Flayers and I think they were all level 7-9 at the time. So depending on how things go in Baldur's Gate 3 it can make sense for our characters to be in the Underdark but not too deep into it.

Ah well. I enjoy the Baldur's Gate games and I'm looking forward to early access this August (maybe).

[/quote]I'm not surprised at all, merely voicing an issue with Siege of Dragonspear. The Baldur's Gate games are still fun, there are plenty of creatures in the Underdark, not all are meant for higher level parties.
.[/quote]

Yes, they are fun, even today. Wasn't trying to sound like an ass btw, wasn't targeting you. It's all good 👍 I'm more worried about the "hardcore" BG fan that will probably buy BG3, play it, enjoy it, and still trash talk it on the forums because it wasn't this and that... These guys are stuck in 1998 there's just nothing to do about it.

Puff I do not think it´s the novel (At least I hope so), it´s because Abdel Adrian, wich sadly is the name of the main character of the novel, became the canon baalspawn "Hero of Baldurs gate" in the lore (he even appears in "Murder in Baldurs gate")

This is not truth. If you read the negative reviews, you will see a lot of reasonable arguments. But only because someone is criticizing something, doesn't means that people would't buy...



Well, Neverwinter from 1991 was the first graphical mmorpg and was turn based. Neverwinter nights changed it to real time with pause and NOBODY criticized NWN1/2 by it. In fact, Larian is far more experienced with turn based and other RtWP games like Pathfinder Kingmaker/Wrath of The righteous and PoE 2 Deadfire are getting turn based options.



Considering that we got a lot of TRASH D&D adaptations, mobile cashgrabs, sword coast legends, neverwinter mmo, and arguably, SoD is decent compared with that titles, i see that they will probably purchase BG3. Even if they criticize it.

IMO BG3 will be great. Good as BG2? No. I will play more than Pathfinder Wrath of The Righteous? Probably not. A game which you can even become a lich and reanimate bosses seems far more interesting to me than a low level game.

Is not that for me it is a necessity, is just that i don't see lichdoom on CRPG's since M&M VIII - Day of the destroyer.

Negative reviews huh? Was the game buggy? Not really. Did they change the engine or mechanics? Nope, still the crappy infinity engine. Did they change the scenery? No, still good old Baldur's Gate, plus some really interesting new places. Did they change the characters? No, pretty much the same friendly faces plus some new ones. Poor writing? Let's say different, more actual, since there is about 20 years between games. Still, not particularily bad. Story? It was good for an expension, and even tied to some other IE game.

Si if everything above is at least good, and you still bash the game and give it negative reviews, than you probably had way too high expectations for this, wich doesn't mean the products is bad, it just didn't live up to your standard.

Again, it is just my opinion, not talking about you specifically 👍

I think the narrative of SoD was great, and Caelar particularly shone. They were really able to pull off a villain that is lawful good, and a gigantic bitch.
The problem of SoD is the encounter design, which is what makes you realize it was made by another team. Fighting liches, dragons, vampires, demons with a severely underleved party gets tiresome. In the end I was exhausted.

Can't agree of belhifet though. In IWD you can get to like level 16+, whereas in SoD you'll cap at 11~12. What makes it even more absurd is that maybe it is not even the hardest fight in SoD.

I din't purchased SoD, so i can't have a honest opinion, only say what i've heard about it.

But talking about video games adaptations, all iterations of underdark that i know are high level to epic level.

• NWN1 - HotU starts at lv 15. And you only goes down to the underdark on chapter 2.
• BG2 you only venture on underdark when you have the slayer form and has a six party member
• DDO menace of the underdark is a high level/epic level campaign.

But maybe i an wrong. IF one thing that i learned is that you can't judge Sween by his words. He said "missing obvious not work", "spell slots aren't intuitive" among other things and the gameplay that i saw seems great. I can only judge how underdar will gonna be when i see it Note that spell slots is not something which only D&D uses. FF 1 and Dark Souls 1/2 uses it too.

I really can't see why so many people are confused that there would be an Underdark portion to BG3 for lvls 1-10...you can make low level Underdarks settings very easily. the highest levels of the underdark usually have low CR monsters

I´ll not be too worried about it.

In the previous gameplay footage, two level-1 characters beat an encounter with three intellect devourers so I think the tadpole in your head gives you an advantage or the enemies are toned down to be an equal to your low-level characters.
The intellect devourers are CR7 creatures, and widely known as party-killers. It was strange when I found out they can be killed with a boot. Gotta try that next time.
Now seriously, in the gameplay the Intellect devourers did not use some of their signature moves, they just attack so I think we´ll find enemies modified and balanced to match our low-level party.

There also options for low level creatures in the underdark too, but after watching the gameplay footage I do not think that´s what Larian aims. Anyway, some low-level monsters could be found to use it in settings like Menzobarranzan, etc.

Flumph (cr 1/8, mm 135); easy, 25 xp
Giant Rat (cr 1/8, mm 327); deadly, 50 xp
Wretched Sorrowsworn (cr 1/4, mtf 233); hard, 50 xp
Derro (cr 1/4, mtf 158); hard, 50 xp
Flumph (cr 1/8, mm 135); easy, 25 xp
Wretched Sorrowsworn (cr 1/4, mtf 233); hard, 50 xp
Goblin (cr 1/4, mm 166); hard, 50 xp
Xvart (cr 1/8, vgm 200) and 1 x Giant Rat (cr 1/8, mm 327); deadly, 50 xp
Grimlock (cr 1/4, mm 175); hard, 50 xp
Flumph (cr 1/8, mm 135); easy, 25 xp
Kobold Dragonshield (cr 1, vgm 165) and 2 x Kobold (cr 1/8, mm 195); deadly, 250 xp
Skulk (cr 1/2, mtf 227); easy, 100 xp
Minotaur Skeleton (cr 2, mm 273); medium, 450 xp
Kuo-toa Whip (cr 1, mm 200) and 1 x Kuo-toa (cr 1/4, mm 199); medium, 250 xp
Shadow (cr 1/2, mm 269); easy, 100 xp
Quaggoth (cr 2, mm 256); medium, 450 xp
Kobold Scale Sorcerer (cr 1, vgm 167) and 2 x Kobold (cr 1/8, mm 195); deadly, 250 xp
Piercer (cr 1/2, mm 252); hard, 200 xp
Firenewt Warlock of Imix (cr 1, vgm 143)

Wizards of the Coast had a complete campaign that took place in the Underdark with characters starting at level one.

https://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/outoftheabyss

So I am sure Larian can Descend into the Underdark for some low-level encounters.

And that's a great module. The first part is bit of meat grinder but that seems to be a pattern with the 5th ed modules. Excited to go the underdark.

quoting from WoTC "A Dungeons & Dragons adventure for characters of levels 1–15"

I din't read the module but i believe that you will be spending most of low level times on Upperdark and will not even see the Lowerdark...



My guess is that or Larian will nerf the enemies completely or you will only stay on upperdark.

Upperdark or Lowerdark? Still part of the Underdark.

Just like the first floor or second floor or basement can still be part of the Inn.

I´ll be happy if they do not "Pull on a Siege Of Dragonspear" too much and make us fight severely nerfed ilithids, baatezus, dragons, Ropers, etc only to be able to say that you fight epic encounters with a lower level party in the game...
Not saying that you should be fighting kobolds and goblins for 50 hours, but not fighting intellect devourers at level one either; just using the stat block of a goblin and make it look like a stronger creature (like an intellect devoured) only to let the players think it´s a more challenging and cooler fight (when it´s only a glorified goblin ambush/rats in the cellar fight).