Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Latest News Gathering the Party - Community Update #2

MOTB is actually the only example of a stand alone high level campaign that actually worked.
but MOTB is very different from BG3 in terms of tone.

And theres a reason its an expansion for an already existing game: it takes a lot of risks for a standalone game
also id say waht makes MOTB good is not the fact that ts high level but that it has a lot of very interresting ideas and a c ool ass world

I really hope that Larian Studios is going that way like the old D&D Gold Box series and of course Baldur´s Gate 1+2 and his AddOns. That the story always continued of the events from the respective predecessor and you could always import your characters from the predecessor.

So just BG2 expansion. Tales of the Sword Coast was an addition to the base campaign.

Would be really really nice If they implement the old BG magic chanting sounds ^^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zcu4KFZOKtM

HotU is also considered one of the best expansions and is from nwn1.

That said, some people enjoy low level, which is fine. But descent to Arvenus is a lv 1 to 13 module. And even on 3.5e, some class fantasies only start to be fun to play around lv 8. Example? Necromancers. Not having phantasmal killer and animate dead hurts a lot the fantasy of being a necromancer. And necros only start to truly shine when they get Finger of Death which is a tier 7 spell.

And note that 5e already reduced the power of spells by a lot

• Finger of Death no longer OHKill. Only deals 7d8 + 30 necrotic damage
• Create undead create far weaker mobs
• Feeblemind was a 5th tier spell. Now is a 8th tier
• Warlocks no longer has at will invocations
• Eldritch Spear no longer exist with the 250 feet range.
• Eldritch Blast no longer can deal up to 9d6 damage, only (d10+CHA mod) *4
• Metamagic is sorcerer only
• High tier magic usage is extremely limited, like 1/2 casts of any spell above tier 6
• Stoneskin which negated the damage on 2e, gave DR 10/+5 on 3.5e, now only gives nonmagical weapon resistance.
• Many buffs require concentration.

Don't get me wrong, a lv 17 warlock is still amazing. Is like having a squad of 4 crossbowman equipped with "force heavy crossbows" with unlimited ammo. But i really miss the trilling of facing a lich knowing that a finger of death can mean death and the PC being able to do the same...

D&D is a group game, played in group, so people who enjoy low level gameplay tends to form groups who also enjoy low level gameplay. 3.5e mid to high level is fun to play but is a chore to DM.

Correction some invocations are still at will, there is one that allows you to cast mage armor at will, one that allows you to cast dusguise at will, a higher level req one that allows you to cast alter self at will, one that let's you see in darkness including magical darkness at will, one that allows you to use any ritual spell which are all at will, ect..., I'll look the names up later.

they use actual (but poorly translated) latin for those it was such a nice touch.

Ohhh really? I missed that that case. I also liked the little time consume during they cast the spell. In the demo for me it looked too instant.

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/20502/spellcasting-words-translation-and-discussion

Icewind Dale & Baldur's Gate Spells

1) Illusion: "Veritas, Credo, Oculos" = "The truth, I believe, with my eyes"

2) Alteration: "Praeses, Alia, Fero" = "Protecting, another, I bring this forth"

3) Necromancy: "Vita, Mortis, Careo" = "Life, and death, I am without"

4) Divination: "Scio, Didici, Pecto" = "I know, for I have studied, with my mind"

5) Abjuration: "Manus, Potentis, Paro" = "A hand, powerful, I prepare"

6) Evocation: "Incertus, Pulcher, Imperio" = "Uncertain, beautiful things, I command"

7) Conjuration: "Facio, Voco, Ferre" = "This I do, I call, to bring you forth"

8) Enchantment: "Cupio, Virtus, Licet" = "I want, excellence, allowed to me"

edit: regarding spell speed in the video: in 5e, spells are "prepared" during rest so they can be cast on the same turn (effective 1 second cast time), as opposed to spell cast times from 2e.

we already know they have this feature in.
Even tho i still dont get it since latin doesnt exist in FR, buteh.

lol if FR doesn't then ENG doesn't either. technically it's 'common'.

max party members 6

Pacing will get a negative hit, imo.

There was some new stuff posted on Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/

Under the "Actions Category" :

HOLY $^!+ I guess that takes care of one of my big concerns.

I agree that vocalizing chants gives a sense of power and immersion in gameplay.

Very cool detail, I never realized this.

Well i dont know where else to put it.
maybe it warrants its own thread.

There is one concern i have with BG3 that goes beyond any others.
And tis the writing.

not about how "dark" it is. But there were a few red flags to me already, and now someone on an anonymous image board dug up the Twitter handles of a few of the writers for BG3 and quite frankly, im starting to get concerned.

From Pronouns in the Twitter Bio to the Cuckold story with the Gith, im starting to feel the California vibes from BG3.
Dont go there.

This is what killed Siege of Dragonspear. This is why your competitor, Beamdog, crashed and burned. This is why Mass Effect Andromeda crashed and burned. This is why Pillars of Eternity crashed and burned.

I know that with WOTC , especialy with Crawford, youll have those elements.
But note. California is not your audience. California is not representative of any majority opinion outside of upper class california.


I might make a thread about this if i see this trend continue.
I like Larian specifically because it has its own kind of Humor. Its decisiveley European. It reminds me of tin tin comics the Heavy Metal Magazine.
When Dragon Commander came out, i remember the shitshow that was the commentary on it.
I distinctiveley remember Sven laughing and saying yeah its a game for boys.
That honesty was amazing to me. you just make what you want without a care. I understand that more money is on the line now.
But toeing the line isnt how you make money in this industry, and you saw it with your competitors that failed because they tried to do that.

Remind yourself of what Larian has dealt with in the past. Remember when Original Sin 1s Cover art was censored.
Remember when one of the Artists working on Original Sin mad e a Blog post on Deviantart i think defending Human Sexuality in Video games.


Remind yourself of those things. Do not cave to California. Do not cave to people who do not buy video games.
I see that youve listened to the feedback of oldschool CRPG fans when it comes to past tense Dialogue.

I think if theres one thing that oldschool CRPG Fans and Tactical SRPG can agree on, then it is that Games are better when they are a labour of love. Not one of Ideology.

Good writing is possible without overblown inclusivity, and without pandering to the adolescent fantasies of immature boys. However, it is not usual to see it in video games.

The best way to deal with human sexuality in games is probably to write romanceable characters without any reference to the sex, or other characteristics of the player. That allows everyone to have whatever relationship in their head that suits them. It puts some restrictions on the way character dialog is written, but as the majority of dialog in games is not exactly Booker Prize material, I'm sure it doesn't impact quality much.

DA:2 does exactly that, and is probably the only facet of that game I particularly like. DA:I is much more restrictive in relationships, both by sex and race, presumably because they have companion back-stories that involve discrimination and bigotry. Personally, I think this quite regressive compared to DA:2, since it means you have go with the writers' actually implementing racial and sexual bigotry into their characters, which is weird.

I think I read somewhere that this is the exact direction they are going with BG3 (just like they did in Divinity 2). That everybody will be essentially pansexual and can fall for anybody. Which is cool, I think, every player will have their own story.

If I recall correctly, they also said companions will romance each other eventually or they might be not loyal to the main pc. Like the gith lass, who has no conception of monogamy cause of her culture.

I am super fine with the decision, now you can romance any companion you find compatible with your main character (if you are into that sort of stuff).

On the things Sordak wrote about catering to an overly liberal audience, well, I disagree. It is 2020, painting a fantasy world as diverse as our real world really is should not be an issue.

The titles he mentioned (siege and pillars) I only know one, Siege and that was a hot mess, but not because that blow out of proportions controversy with the transgender npc.

I reckon Siege is a really good example how a group of passionate fanboys/girls can make a really shitty imitation while trying to honor the original work. The rail-roading, the bleedingly bad general story structure, the horrible character writing these were all faults of Siege that probably killed off Beamdog's chance to make this game (meaning BG3).

I am also not fun using a 20 years old engine (even though I don't care about graphics at all, Siege was buggy as frick).

PS: here is the article I read about the romance stuff:

https://www.vg247.com/2020/02/27/baldurs-gate-3-romance-all-companions/

I disagree with you breakign down my entire point to Romance options.

This is not what my post is about. its about deliberate california pandering. This doesnt just include romance options, they are only part of it, and in that t is how they are handled. Its about the values that the story is constructed upon and it is about ideological descisions made where Artistic descision should be made.

When Character design isnt decided by an artist, but by an activist, problems arise. And exactl ythis has been shown in many areas in western games design. Female character become increasingly more puddy faced, pixie haired and obese (look at some recent Magic the Gathering art for reference)

As for the romacne thing since you insist on it: what larian is doing is the lazy and quite frankly a bit cowardly way of doing it. Instead of adressign anyhting, they just weasel around it. Its less detailed writing, takes the characters personality less into account.
However, i admit that it is accurate to Forgotten Realms. So ill give it a pass.

Forgotten realms is, afterall, about Bisexuals having sex constantly. But my point wasnt about the way romance pairings are done in the game.


As for the specific example given: Its , yet again, a matter of tone and a matter of context. Baldurs gate was quite famous for a well loved female character throwing her sluttyness into the PCs face.
Lets say i quite frankly dont have the trust, given other circumstances in the industry, that this example is done for Interpersonal drama reasons (or to convey personal insecurities and trust issues)