Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Improve spellcasting (or skills) sequences

Hi,

I think there could be a good improvement about the spellcasting sequences.

Actually, the time line when you cast a spell (or a skill) during your turn is this one :
- select a skill
- animation (character load the spells)
- click target
- animation (character throw the spell)

Don't know if load/throw are the good words but it's hard to find the perfect words in English. I hope you'll understand what I mean.

I really think it could be better and more immersive if spells were casted in one time rather than two.
It could also give a little bit more time if they wish to add something that sounds more like real spell incantations words.

The sequence would be this one :
- select a skill
- select an ennemy
- spell casting (loading (+words) and throwing).

Spells would looks more impressive and less chopped.
It could also be more immersive because you're characters won't load 2-3 or more spells with all that lights and sounds before you finally choose which one you're going to use.

Maybe players need something to remember/check what
kind of skills/spells they clicked on ?
You already have it in the skills bar and you can eventually add a small effect on the target point (something like an aura of the color spell you choose).

I tried to create a short video to show exactly what I mean but I'm obviously not able to do it^^
Just check the time when Sven hesitate between a Thunderwave lvl 1 or lvl 2 during the first fight here : https://youtu.be/XSc17QXxfyU?t=1727
I don't really find that very necessary and a little bit too arcady for a Baldur's Gate game.

Another problem we can see in other sequences in that you miss half the spell casting animations because your character is out of the screen when you select a far target.
I have to admit it's more smooth in other sequences but I think it's mainly because Sven know what he want to do.

EDIT 1 : I started thinking only about spells but I think it's the same for other skills. Could be a little bit confusing in the text.

EDIT 2 : The link to high quality vidéos

Spell casting should always look like that ? (1 time)
https://youtu.be/LyKmpnmMo54

Or sometimes like that (2 times)
https://youtu.be/iZCfkfRFh98
and also, sometimes like that (many times)
https://youtu.be/xoFfBpn0wJU

I think that´s the case. When Lae`zel is about to make a dash or a superiority manoeuvre she changes the stance before moving and attacking.

It's probably done in part for the sake of other people in multiplayer to show that you're doing something and not just AFK. I can agree that combining the animation into one which triggers upon casting is a good idea.

Perhaps when deciding what spells to cast, a slight shift in stance and a glow would suffice as in indication.

I think it's not but it's something you noticed way less with dash and such skills than spells (and it's sometimes hard to see it because we can't choose where the camera is focused on)
Whatever the skills or spells it's always chopped in 2 times but some effects are way more/less visible than others.

It's never a "problem" when AI is playing its turns because A.I instant have the good combination skills or spell/target. It doesn't have to wait i.e to think, to put their mouse on the good target, to change their spell because they missed click .....
The sequences looks really smooth with ennemies and watching at them is the only way to feel the right casting time/sequences.

You always have a delay with players.
It's not really a detail according to me because it give the feelings that a spell don't look the same everytime and that their casting time is different.
You could also have many irrelevant effetcs, lights and sounds in case you just miss click or finally choose another option and that's something I really don't like.

I hadn't thought about the multiplayer aspect, as it's not my thing; but even in MP, I would think that any preamble animation should be subtle as each player will often try out many different options, which could become quite distracting/messy.

On the contrary, if there are simultaneous turns(which you have if there are two companions beside each other), Its useful in multiplayer if you know that your companion is preparing a spell, or a dash, or a skill... before moving yourself. And if they have a "channeling" animation you know he/she`s going to do something.



Pretty sure Lae´`zel have a Dragonball channeling stance before dashing in 27.38 and another one before "Action surge" afterwards.

I completely agree with what Maximuuus and Stabbey wrote!
Especially when it comes to the camera moving over to the targeted enemy before the casting animation has ended. I want to see the ritualistic animations of my character during spellcasting. I don't want to look at my enemy until the spell has already been thrown at the enemy first. If the camera absolutely must jump to the enemy, then please make the camera follow the projectile of the thrown spell instead. I would prefer that the camera is always completely at the player's control, with the optional exception being during the AI's turns or during the turns of other players in multiplayer.

And I agree that it would be better if we got a bit longer ritualistic casting animations for spells, also so that the verbal incantations can be longer than 1 or 2 very short words, as seen in the demo. Even if it's just as small a change as adding 1 more short word to each incantation, it would still be better imo. And doing it in the way that OP suggested above, is a great way to implement that. But I'm very glad to see that verbal incantations is a part of the game at all though.

Also another problem with the charge-up and holding of the charged spell until it's finally thrown, is that your character stand in this low Kung Fu-like stance with feet planted in the ground, and the feet don't move at all while you're turning your character while a charged-up spell is being held. That looks weird and unimmersive imo. I think some inspiration from how Dragon's Dogma handled this would be great. As your character turns while holding a spell, the feet and stance should be harmonised with the turning movement.

I finally find a way to create video... This should have been in the 1st post.
(don't be rude, I'm a noob and I'm not playing the game while recording so it's hard to be coherent in camera view...).

I really think i.e casting thunderwave should always look like that (1 time)
https://youtu.be/LyKmpnmMo54

Not sometimes like that (2 times)
https://youtu.be/iZCfkfRFh98

Or worse, like that (many times)
https://youtu.be/xoFfBpn0wJU

I didn't find a way to have only 1 video out of these 3
I could probably add many parts of the 2 gameplay video we had because it's something that feel strange in nearly every battles.

Don't really know about MP because l had and will never play it... But of course it's something we must think about.

Cool videos, Maximus, thanks!

It's useful to know when a team member has actually done something, but if you are flitting between possible options the way Swen was playing the game, maybe less so? I suppose it depends on what other shared communications you have.

You would also have to be viewing the same world-space as your team-mate to see what their avatar is doing, which is not forced on you in BG3. I wasn't looking for MP hints, so I didn't notice if the potential activities were reflected elswwhere in the UI; the portraits would be an obvious place to show status and activity, I suppose.

Why are you people CONSTANTLY wrong about everything.
No.
having the characters play an animation when selecting a sill is good, its tactile.

it makes the moment to moment gameplay expirience more reactive.

Also i guess it, yet again, falls into "Needless nitpicking about the tiniest things that are not exactly like in a 20 year old game"

Right now you could only take simultaneous turns when you are near your ally. So you´re seeing them because you're together. If all players could move at the same time it's useful to know when the others are preparing a spell, a skill or something like that to avoid friendly fire. The "channelling" animation could help with that.

When the team member already cast the fireball, entangle, grease... while you are charging, it's not useful to see the animation and you already know because you´re already burning, or entangled. You want to know that he´s casting before you charge...
Or you want to know your teammate is dashing, or misty step near the enemies so you do not hit him/her.

I know in an ideal world the players will communicate before doing something but you know how MP is in real life. Right now in the portraits, there´s a big "crossing sword" indicating that you are in combat or out of combat, but nothing else that indicates what you`re doing.

Will you still buy the game if this kind of suggestions are implemented ?
I'm not if nothing is a little bit less "sensational" / Hollywood /explosions, lights and effects everytime during battles (Even when you're thinking or before you really do something here...).

I hope Larian is not going to be as condescendant as you are about players that want to experience a game a little bit more immersive/coherent and a little bit more Baldur's Gate in their Baldur's Gate game.

and what is and isnt baldurs gate is determined by you.
right.

Wtf are you saying ?
Am I the one that created the Baldur's Gate experience 20 years ago ?

There are reasons why BG are legendary games. Try to catch them.
I don't pretend I know all the answers but as many others, I still never find a game I'll still play in 20 years... Still, I've played many great video games RPGs over the years...

Maybe you have answers for a quick success while others could give Larian the legendary name they deserve... Who knows ?
(Probably you because it looks you know everything better than everyone else)

Sorry, the 2 lasts messages are useless.

OK, I see what you're saying. You want to see what another MP player is considering doing, even if they are uncertain and don't actually do it, to avoid possibility of self-harm.

So the way it currently works you and a team mate could actually be executing actions simultaneously? I guess I assumed that once one of you committed to an action, it would complete before any other team-mate could execute an action, avoiding the self-harm scenario while still allowing you to interleave actions.

Obviously you never played this kind of games in MP or I´m not explaining myself the way I should.
Maybe you played XCoM2 or commandos2 in SP? They take simultaneous actions, you can shoot while the soldier is running, or throw a grenade when the others are executing his actions.
The animation pops up when a character is about to do something. If pops up when you are doing something, like throwing a grenade, It´s too late to do anything about it.

Usually knowing that another player is going to do something allows you to wait and see what he is doing so you do not disturb his action or harm your fellow party member with your skills or spells or put yourself in harms´ way. I do not know how else to explain that.

No, as I've said, I don't play MP. But yes I did understand what you meant, I was just surprised that TB becomes slightly less TB when in multiplayer. I understand the interleaving of different player actions/bonus actions etc, but didn't expect them to actually execute simultaneously, since it's not supposed to be RT

In Dos2 MP, for example, a character could be fighting, others could be out of combat; stealing from the cowering shopkeeper. and another could be sneaking trying to flank the enemies; staying out of sight.

Just imagine that you are going to run and shove the voidwoken with your fighter to throw it over a cliff, at the same time your sneaky flanker is going to shoot an explosive arrow to the voidwoken. If we cannot see that the other is going to do something, the usual outcome is that you shove the goblin out of the harm´s way and you just got hit with the explosive arrow instead.
And the shopkeeper also caught your thief and call the guards because Murphy is a b...

Fun times.

And isn't that possible to have another kind of visual effects in MP if really necessary ?

Idk, an icon above the heads...? Or an icon on portraits ?
I think they are solutions to conciliate both SP and MP experience.
An option to enable/disable a visual effects or a UI notification (or something else) for players to customize their experience don't sounds really impossible to me.

I really feel opinions and priorities are really differents whatever someone like playing SP/MP/both.
Maybe that's what Larian should work on to satisfy a huge majority of all kind of RPG players.