Originally Posted by etonbears
Originally Posted by WizardPus
I was reading about the changing of all races due to some concern that monsters (which don't exist) are somehow being viewed as representation of races. I think this can go way too far to the point of losing what fantasy is. For example, there are demons, should we now have good demons? Would that not make them angels? Same with Devils? Ogres? they could be mistaken for something else other than some creature made of the earth by magic or evil gods etc.?

Going back to my last comment, I think we need to keep monsters, well monsters. Sure there can be complex social structures, but they eat humans and generally are "monstrous". I'm old school Tolkien style monsters all the way.


I think the problem WoTC are addressing isn't directly about races being portrayed as monstrous or evil.

If you look at a map of the FR world, it is an obvious pastiche of our own world. The main land mass apes Europe-Asia-Africa, with a second landmass that apes the Americas. And the human societies in these land masses ape the equivalent in our world.

To some degree or other, many other fantasy worlds also use this notion ( For example, the Warhammer, and DragonAge nations strongly resemble aspects of European history ). The reasons for this fairly common practice are twofold; first, familiarity helps the "consumer" relate to the fantasy, and second, the "producer" has the rich tapestry of our own histories to draw upon.

The trouble with fantasy writers using this device is that it relies on the accuracy of their own knowledge of the world. But, most of us are extremely ignorant, even if we have a passion for knowledge and history. Fantasy writers use their acquired worldview as the basis for their creations; including applying to fantasy races the stereotyped traits from the writer's understanding of real societies of which they are aware.

I believe it is the depicting of fantasy races using a raft of negative stereotyped traits that are also applied to a portion of our own world population that is at issue.

Whether you, personally, care about this depends on your own place in society, and your attitudes and sensitivity to the people around you.

In the US ( WoTC core market ), even without the issue of the African slavery ( which was of an industrial-scale and brutality that makes it quite unlike most other historical slavery ), the degree of immigration that led to the current population has resulted in a significant number of minority groups that might be slighted by thoughtless or ignorant use of their societal history.



This all sounds like "looking for problems". I get real-world stuff, but, I don't think I've ever met a single race of Orcs, or Goblins, Or Ogres, or dragon kind etc. These are made up. I think if we start to think too much about stuff that is NOT real and trying to paint into something that "resembles" real we will end up just neutering art altogether. We should just play a game where all characters are lifeless Blue Lego's, you know, so we don't somehow mistake it for real life.