Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Mega-threads and Guides The Turn-Based/Real Time with Pause topic

Equating a cut to pause is erroneous.


Nor can you with a "P"


No, it was designed to be a way to make the TB combat of D&D appealing to players of RT computer games like Diablo.


Easy with the subjectivism.

To use your attempt at the movie analogy, "RTwP" is more like watching that scene and literally pausing every second or two to check out all the set and costume details you might miss. The type of gameplay you are describing can only be achieved with real time play, especially in a competitive/public forum like an MMO (since you cannot pause).

It's a fact that BG is unmatch as an RPG.

It's a fact that the thing that makes BG stand out from other CRPG is RTwP combat.

ergo, no game has matched BG because RTwP is part of the formula that made the game what it was.

An interactive story, not a combat simulator.

You're one of the people who will harp and hate on RTwP all day just for the sake of it, so I really don't care what you think of my opinion.

Yep. I first learned D&D back when AD&D first came out. Then I played AD&D2 for quite a while. When playing with an excellent DM and a good group where the players mostly role play and minimize out of character crosstalk the play flows rather well and the "turns" are seamless during encounters. The "turns" don't feel like turns the way they do in a TB board game or TB video game. The action doesn't obviously stop and start and stop and start and stop etc. etc.. On the PC I've played all of the Icewind Dale series, Temple of Elemental Evil, Baldur's Gate with all expansions (and still play with the Enhanced version), Baldur's Gate 2 with all expansions (and can still play with the enhanced version). I loved those games and replayed them all more than once with different parties. I also played Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2. Liked but didn't love it because there's no party, only a henchman. Very disappointing. Not nearly the same feel and tactics are almost irrelevant because with only two characters there are very few tactical possibilities. Never replayed after the first play through. I also did Daggerdale and liked it even less than NWN because it is basically D&D done as an FPS with role playing elements. Never replayed it after the first play through.

If Larian makes BG3 turned based it won't be Baldur's Gate. It will some other game with BG skins and characters. Right now as I type I'm in the middle of a turn in a TB game (Panzer Corps2), and I'm eating a bowl of soup, and I'm watching a movie. Because I can do and usually do multiple things when I'm playing a TB game. When I'm done typing comments here I'll go back to finish the turn in PC2, and continue watching TV, and finish my soup. I have NEVER watched TV while playing a RTwP RPG or a RT FPS or a RT RPG/FPS.
TV distraction during an encounter in a dungeon while playing BG or BG2 is a good way to get the party killed. TV distraction when playing Fallout is a good way to stumble into a Deathclaw or some other nasty beast or pack and die fast. So, if I switch to Fallout 4 or 76 later tonight the TV goes off because RT combat, and RTwP combat, requires constant undivided attention. TB play/combat doesn't.

EXACTLY! The pause function in IWD, ToEV, BG, and BG2 is there because we have to effectively manage/lead in parallel six characters. The pause while the player issues new orders in response to the ebb and flow of the action simulates each character simultaneously deciding what actions to continue or new action to switch to and what the team leader directs the team to do. Combat in those games is more like the small unit tactics of a fireteam leader leading a fireteam of six soldiers in real time rather than the different perspective of say a general commanding six divisions in a TB wargame. The "feel" is very very different.

Also, with the pause options available in BG & BG2 a player can play it exactly like a TB game if the player wants simply by selecting only the "Round" option. Then the game will automatically pause only at the end of each round/turn just like in a TB game. The additional options allow more flexibility for more player control and as little or as much control as the player wants to have.

You misrepresent the pauses during RTwP combat as if the player is doing nothing during the pause when that is far from accurate. When I'm pausing the game action in a RTwP encounter the action may be pausing on the screen but I'm doing the opposite of pausing. I'm analyzing, evaluating, planning, changing plans, making decisions about a change to tactics or not and giving new orders or not. Because I am immersed in what is happening, even during the pause, I'm reacting to what was/is happening, I'm proactively managing and leading what is going to happen because my mind and my attention and my fingers/hands and my participation are NOT pausing. My mind, attention, fingers/hands, and participation are doing the opposite of pausing.

BG3 takes place quite some time after BG2. So it's more like it's the game taking place in the same geographical place at a different point in time. Skin looks quite different and it is unknown if any of the characters will pop up for a cameo.


That why you set autopause my friend. Pause when spotting enemy. Pause when spotting trap. Pause when enemy killed. AI off. I learned it when fighting the pack of goblins for the first time in Irenicus Dungeon. Never looked back.


You see? Turn-based game and gets the same effect as RTwP.


NWN1 yes. NWN2, no - it had up to 4 man party, with fully fledged companions.


That's a weird argument. I mean you are clearly not playing Panzer Corps2 if you are busy eating a bowl of soup, watching a movie or writing on this forum. You can do the same with any game. I suppose the difference is that you don't have to manually pause PC2 to do something else, but it doesn't mean that you play the game, when you don't... play it. The fact that you choose to use automatic pause to do something else might mean that PC2 just isn't a very good game (didn't play it myself so can't comment). A good turn-based games can keep me glued to the screen for hours. The games which do make me distract myself are those no requiring much of my imput to play - like Elite, or AssCreeds Dragon Age: Origins actually. Combat in that was brain-dead repetitive bore. Almost the same with Tyranny. Turnbased games are generally the complete opposite - no visual flare to distract so it's all killer no filler, or it's crap.

Well, that's the subject of another thread. But in case you don't know, Larian most certainly is making BG3 turn based


You really don't seem to know what TB is. The 'round' as you describe it comprises all characters, unlike a 'round' in a TB game. And RTwP can give you less control if you want it, but not more (explain how you can have more control than TB, wherein every single action every player makes is actuated by you and absolutely nothing they do is automatic).


This sounds exactly like what is going on with TB. But you don't seem to understand what TB is, so I guess it won't relate.

Well, the most boring, tedious, repetitive, brain-dead combat I've ever encountered in a videogame was in D:OS. And filler trash mobs were plentiful in it too. Even the goblin combat encounters we've seen so far in BG3 come across to me as tedious brain-dead filler combat.

In singleplayer... fair enough. In coop you can keep swiping/freesing/shocking your coop partner whenever her refuses to follow with your plan. I don't think D:OS1&2 works well outside coop, which is fine. Less so BG which has a strong singleplayer legacy. Still, as some of my favourite games are turn-based I don't think this is where the problem lies, and least not for me.

Other than the last fie words, everything you're describing is the same thing which is happening in turn-based combat on the player's turn and on enemy turns.



It is not the fault of the game that you have the attention span of a goldfish and completely black out whenever it's not your character's turn in turn-based combat.




This is what people like about you. Whenever you express your opinions, you're always so polite and respectful.

Maybe he don't need 10 seconds during everyone's turn to analyse the situation ?

Okay, but I am a strictly SP gamer, so I am speaking from the vantage point of my experiences. Also, when you speak of all your favorite games being TB, are you speaking just of cRPGs or of videogames generally? I love certain strategy games. They are generally TB. And I have no problem with those games being TB because it makes sense in their context. Just wondering.

I am sure you're being sarcastic, in which case I would ask: exactly what am I saying here that is not polite or respectful? There is not one single word there that is a personal attack on anyone else. Not one. I am merely expressing my personal experiences as a gamer. That's it. No bad words. No cuss words. No judgment or labeling of anyone else. So exactly what are you talking about?

If that is the case, I would say it is derived more from the encounters being too easy. Trying it solo or in MP, it was not the case. But with full group by level 14 or so (on Tactician), on my first play through, combat was too easy. The combat in any game can be so described if it is easy enough.

Clearly you missed my point. So, no, I set several autopause conditions so I can have an opportunity to change orders if necessary when something important happens. I never have TV distractions when I'm playing a RT or a RTwP game because missing something important isn't worth the risk. I have TV distractions ONLY when I play a turn based (TB) game because they don't require constant attention.

Fallout, specifically New Vegas, 4, and 76, are NOT turn based games. They are real time RPGs combined with a lot of FPS and no pausing. Well, it pauses when your character dies. But since we don't have a fully party and instead have only one, rarely two NPC companions (when playing 76 solo, it also supports coop with other players) pausing isn't really necessary, especially since they are heavy on FPS. A pause function kinda defeats the whole point of an FPS. That is why I never watch TV when I'm playing any of the Fallout games or any other RT game. Unless I'm safely in a settlement or CAMP my attention needs to be on the screen and listening for indications of hostiles. Some of them can kill even a high level heavily armed character pretty fast if caught by surprise. Like the time I basically walked right into a L93 glowing Deathclaw that I wasn't expecting to be where it was. I only noticed it when it moved to charge.

Well, I played two NWN games and neither one had a party of four to the best of my memory. So I'm probably conflating an expansion for #1 with 2.

There is nothing weird about my argument when my argument is about the differences in the levels of emersion and involvement and attention between a RTwP game versus a TB game. Because a RTwP game, like the IWD series, BG, BG2, and NWN (TofEE is really a phased WeGo with reaction TB system, if memory serves) requires much more attention, and thus can be much more immersive than a TB game, I never do distracting activities when playing those kinds of games that I routinely do when I'm playing a TB game.

Seriously, are you really trying to tell me that I'm not playing the game I'm playing? Of course I'm watching TV and eating a bowl of soup while playing Panzer Corp 2 because that is an IGoUGo with auto reaction TB game. Consequently, it doesn't need constant attention. I don't even need to watch it while the computer runs the AI's turn. I can figure out what happened just by looking at how the units end up after the AI's turn is done. And because PC2 it is a TB tactical wargame there is no manual pausing. It automatically pauses at the end of each turn as TB games normally do. Exactly like how the IWD, BG, & BG2 games can be set to pause only at the end of each round so that it functionally plays just like a TB game if one does not do any manual pausing.

I get the impression that we mostly agree, but you missed some important context and thus didn't realize what the point is that I've been trying to make. Specifically, for this type of game I very strongly prefer RTwP to TB play. If BG3 ends up turn based then combat to me will feel just like a small unit tactical wargame. No excitement. No tension. No thrill. No immersion. Just problem/puzzle solving like chess or checkers or a typical tactical wargame.

That straw man totally misses the real point.



And now that you have resorted to a childish ad hominem attack you obviously have no credibility whatsoever and don't deserve another nanosecond of time.

I am really surprised how many people prefer/like TB.

Ironically BG was the game that made TB combat obsolete to me and also changed the whole community at the time it was released.

RTwP for me is the perfect balance between action and tactical gameplay and even some JRPGs started to use it at some extent.

In easy and even some moderate battles you don't even need to pause if you want.

In TB, it is hard to justify a group of enemies cluster (usually they outnumber you, especially in a group of 4) while you just watch. Or you cannot move simultaneously or try to block casters.

TB is just an archaic system and I would had accept better if Larian went to full action game rather than TB.

I don't seem to understand what TB is? That's just crazy. I've been playing TB board games for more than 50 years, and TB computer games since before PCs were a thing. Yeah, I've played TB games on a couple mainframes. I understand very well what TB means. That's why I understand that Turn Based has at least six different meanings. That's why I explained this point in my very first post. That's why I mention in one of my posts that I don't think everyone is defining TB exactly the same way. Now it looks like you're trying to rationalize a lame genetic fallacy.

Depending upon the game "round" and "turn" can be synonymous. In the earlier versions of D&D the term "turn" had two different meanings with two different time spans so it was necessary to specify the type of turn or the circumstances so people would know to which kind of turn one was referring. If memory serves AD&D and AD&D2 had a 10 minute game turn when in open world and then a 1 minute combat turn with 10 six second combat rounds during encounters. I think it wasn't until version 3.5 that they settled on having only one kind of turn. But that was quite a while ago and I haven't read a hardback Player's Manual for more than 20 years. The closest thing to a PM I've read are the ones that come with BG & BG2.

Well, you say a lot of weird shit that makes it seem like you don't (passivity, being a spectator, turns that run while you're away). I don't know what games you're thinking of, but that crap doesn't sound like DOS (yes, DOS, Divinity Original Sin, the games made Larian, the makers of the game whose forum you are on).

And I don't know why you keep saying things like:


It is, without any question or doubt, going to be a turn based game, and because of that it will feel more like - oh boy, big shock, here it comes - actual D&D.

Well, considering the FACT that the title of this thread is "ragin debate: active pause vs turn per turn" it appears that my comment fits EXACTLY with the subject of THIS thread.

Considering how after waking up in the middle of the night and my first conscious thought is what you say here - well, 2nd conscious thought after thinking that I need to use the bathroom - I can now say that I have never ever been so disappointed before in my life about a pending game. I've been eagerly waiting around 18 years for BG3 to come out because BG2 and its expansions are hands down the best RPG games I've ever played. But sadly Larian is going to ruin it. Instead of staying faithful to the FEEL of the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale games, they are turning BG into a different kind of role playing game and throwing D&D skins onto it so they can call it Baldur's Gate 3. Now I'm not even sure I'll play it. If they were to release it today, I know I wouldn't play it. But six weeks from now I'll probably be over my disappointment enough to give it a try even though I KNOW it absolutely will not FEEL the same as playing BG or BG2. There won't be any sense of urgency. There won't be any excitement. There won't be any intensity. There won't be any sense of immediacy. It will just be another endless series of problems/puzzles to solve at my leisure. Because I have NEVER played any turn based game of any kind in any genre that can match the feeling of playing a RT or RTwP game like the Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate series of games. Temple of Elemental Evil was a very close second.