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Originally Posted by Dingor
And I would like to see any tabletop game with actual real time battle. Maybe in distant future with VR... (but again that would be VR game not tabletop) but for now we have compter that can make all trows and calculations to make that happen and I can't understand why in COMPUTER game we must stick to the TABLETOP rules. If something prevent you from making good RTwP combat - just change or remove it from rules. It's not like Larian not changed tabletop rules for BG3 already so you can't say that it's 5e to the core.


So you're willing to toss a heap of 5e mechanics into the trash for the sake of making oversimplified real-time combat?

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Originally Posted by Dingor
Originally Posted by Jonneh
Not interested in this as a feature to be honest. D&D 5e is turned based initiative turn order, thats exactly what we have.

And I would like to see any tabletop game with actual real time battle. Maybe in distant future with VR... (but again that would be VR game not tabletop) but for now we have compter that can make all trows and calculations to make that happen and I can't understand why in COMPUTER game we must stick to the TABLETOP rules. If something prevent you from making good RTwP combat - just change or remove it from rules. It's not like Larian not changed tabletop rules for BG3 already so you can't say that it's 5e to the core.


Because it is a game with a TABLETOP ruleset, ffs. I don't go buy an RTS game and complain that it is in real time. "GOSH, why do they have to have REAL TIME COMBAT in an RTS game, can't they just make it turn based so I don't have to rush my moves?? OMG CHANGE IT!!!!!"

That is literally what you are doing right now with BG3.

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Originally Posted by Silent Cetra
Originally Posted by tsundokugames
I don't see why it is such a bad thing that some people are disappointed that RTwP isn't the combat system. It seems like any time someone states a preference for RTwP they get jumped on for being "nostaligic" and wanting "outdated 2d graphics" as if that is what people are talking about.

I dunno, the deeper I dig in to these forums as a new user the more and more I see why there is a split in the community, and the less inclined I am to want to be a part of it.


How is this even an argument? Game is based on DnD 5e.

DnD 5e is turn based combat.

Baldur's Gate 3 is turn based combat.

Boom, too easy

I can in that logic too:
DnD 2e turn based combat
Baldur's Gate 1-2 turn based... stop. not working already.

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Originally Posted by Silent Cetra
Originally Posted by Dingor
Originally Posted by Jonneh
Not interested in this as a feature to be honest. D&D 5e is turned based initiative turn order, thats exactly what we have.

And I would like to see any tabletop game with actual real time battle. Maybe in distant future with VR... (but again that would be VR game not tabletop) but for now we have compter that can make all trows and calculations to make that happen and I can't understand why in COMPUTER game we must stick to the TABLETOP rules. If something prevent you from making good RTwP combat - just change or remove it from rules. It's not like Larian not changed tabletop rules for BG3 already so you can't say that it's 5e to the core.


Because it is a game with a TABLETOP ruleset, ffs. I don't go buy an RTS game and complain that it is in real time. "GOSH, why do they have to have REAL TIME COMBAT in an RTS game, can't they just make it turn based so I don't have to rush my moves?? OMG CHANGE IT!!!!!"

That is literally what you are doing right now with BG3.

I am very familiar with the fact that many, many TB fans made exacty this demand with both PoE games. They also did the same thing with every one of the DA games, and pretty much ANY game out there that uses RTwP.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey


So you're willing to toss a heap of 5e mechanics into the trash for the sake of making oversimplified real-time combat?

5e already boring and oversimplified as it is. But that's not what I'm saying. Real time not = simple.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Silent Cetra
Originally Posted by Dingor
Originally Posted by Jonneh
Not interested in this as a feature to be honest. D&D 5e is turned based initiative turn order, thats exactly what we have.

And I would like to see any tabletop game with actual real time battle. Maybe in distant future with VR... (but again that would be VR game not tabletop) but for now we have compter that can make all trows and calculations to make that happen and I can't understand why in COMPUTER game we must stick to the TABLETOP rules. If something prevent you from making good RTwP combat - just change or remove it from rules. It's not like Larian not changed tabletop rules for BG3 already so you can't say that it's 5e to the core.


Because it is a game with a TABLETOP ruleset, ffs. I don't go buy an RTS game and complain that it is in real time. "GOSH, why do they have to have REAL TIME COMBAT in an RTS game, can't they just make it turn based so I don't have to rush my moves?? OMG CHANGE IT!!!!!"

That is literally what you are doing right now with BG3.

I am very familiar with the fact that many, many TB fans made exacty this demand with both PoE games. They also did the same thing with every one of the DA games, and pretty much ANY game out there that uses RTwP.


Nope. I never see this on any game forum for any RTS game. I only ever see people crying about turn based combat in a game based on turn based rules, which is just ridiculous. You bought the game knowing it was turn based as it stated as much on the store page, AND it stated it was based on DND 5e. So I don't see how one can know this and still complain it is turn based.

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And I'm not asking to change the combat in game. I ask about optional RTwP/Turn based like in Pillars, Pathfinder... Arcanum wink I'm not going to steal anything from you - if you want it you never change that option from "Turn based". But I want to play BG like I used to and how I like it.

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Originally Posted by Dingor
And I'm not asking to change the combat in game. I ask about optional RTwP/Turn based like in Pillars, Pathfinder... Arcanum wink I'm not going to steal anything from you - if you want it you never change that option from "Turn based". But I want to play BG like I used to and how I like it.


Pray tell, how does one enact an action, bonus action, reaction, and free action system and translate that to real time?

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Originally Posted by Silent Cetra
Originally Posted by Dingor
And I'm not asking to change the combat in game. I ask about optional RTwP/Turn based like in Pillars, Pathfinder... Arcanum wink I'm not going to steal anything from you - if you want it you never change that option from "Turn based". But I want to play BG like I used to and how I like it.


Pray tell, how does one enact an action, bonus action, reaction, and free action system and translate that to real time?


You ask like some newbie who never played games that I mentioned or crpgs in past 20 years at least.

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Originally Posted by Silent Cetra
Originally Posted by Dingor
And I'm not asking to change the combat in game. I ask about optional RTwP/Turn based like in Pillars, Pathfinder... Arcanum wink I'm not going to steal anything from you - if you want it you never change that option from "Turn based". But I want to play BG like I used to and how I like it.


Pray tell, how does one enact an action, bonus action, reaction, and free action system and translate that to real time?


Forget about those, how do we get legendary actions in ?
They are the monster only actions, they take BETWEEN the turns of other combatants in addition to their regular actions.
And among them, there are actions that allow the enemies to move without provoking AoOs, or even fly around.


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Originally Posted by Silent Cetra
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Silent Cetra
Originally Posted by Dingor

And I would like to see any tabletop game with actual real time battle. Maybe in distant future with VR... (but again that would be VR game not tabletop) but for now we have compter that can make all trows and calculations to make that happen and I can't understand why in COMPUTER game we must stick to the TABLETOP rules. If something prevent you from making good RTwP combat - just change or remove it from rules. It's not like Larian not changed tabletop rules for BG3 already so you can't say that it's 5e to the core.


Because it is a game with a TABLETOP ruleset, ffs. I don't go buy an RTS game and complain that it is in real time. "GOSH, why do they have to have REAL TIME COMBAT in an RTS game, can't they just make it turn based so I don't have to rush my moves?? OMG CHANGE IT!!!!!"

That is literally what you are doing right now with BG3.

I am very familiar with the fact that many, many TB fans made exacty this demand with both PoE games. They also did the same thing with every one of the DA games, and pretty much ANY game out there that uses RTwP.


Nope. I never see this on any game forum for any RTS game. I only ever see people crying about turn based combat in a game based on turn based rules, which is just ridiculous. You bought the game knowing it was turn based as it stated as much on the store page, AND it stated it was based on DND 5e. So I don't see how one can know this and still complain it is turn based.

You are full of it. Firstly, the discussion here is about RTwP v. TB. RTS games are completely different and separate from RTwP games. So clearly you are desperately engaging in obfuscation. Secondly, wrt RTwP games, their forums are loaded with demands from TB fans that the game be changed to TB. And that, ultimately, is my issue here. Far too many TB fans (though obviously not everyone) have the attitude that all cRPGs must be TB. RTwP fans however don't have that attitude or expectation, and are merely fighting to try and have at least a few RTwP cRPGs out there that we can play and enjoy.

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I still have all BG games installed and play them but I don't really see myself replaying the game because of how boring the combat is. Before every monster, their mother, father, sister, and brother from other mother take turns to move you're already fed up and just want it to be over. It's not the difficulty or the challenge of the combat but the tediousness of it that kills you. It's not dynamic, it's not interesting, takes too much time doing *nothing*.

I really hope BG3 goes the same path as Pillars of Eternity Deadfire and let people choose the style of combat they want. Because right now it feels like they want the DnD starved crowd to play what is pretty much Divinity Orginal Sin 3.

@Dingor you do realise PoE2 *had* to implement the choice because people were moaning so much about it not being a turn based game?


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Originally Posted by Smuttie

@Dingor you do realise PoE2 *had* to implement the choice because people were moaning so much about it not being a turn based game?

I saw them on PoE2 forums and now doing the same thing but for RTwP smile They received what they wanted, now can play PoE2 turn based, I never used that option - but we're all happy. So it's all about developers. Are they like Obsidian and Owlcat and listen to moans in community or not.

Last edited by Dingor; 09/10/20 09:32 PM.
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Originally Posted by Smuttie

you do realise PoE2 *had* to implement the choice because people were moaning so much about it not being a turn based game?

I don't think that's quite correct. If I remember correctly one of the team members believe he could translate PoE2 combat into turn-based system and after showing his concept he got greenlight and small resources to do it.

Nothing is impossibly I suppose, but considering that Larian so far has been rather critical of RTwP system (rather then PoE devs who openly expressed preference toward Turn based system) I doubt there will be someone with enough passion for RTwP to try to impliment it. But of course we don't know every one the team, nor conversations and thoughts they are having smile

Last edited by Wormerine; 09/10/20 09:42 PM.
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I specifically remember an interview where Josh Sawyer said he really enjoyed DOS2, and was inspired to try and design a turn based game.

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Yes, Sawyer and others are TB fans from the get-go (one of Sawyer's dream projects is a TB RPG set in a historical setting similar to Darklands). Arguably you can tell in some of their system design as was already (same as Sawyer isn't really a fan of class based systems). Can't remember much outcry really, but then I stay clear of these kinda threads... mostly. wink

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Guys, I understand that you just want RTwP to be an option along with TB, thus pleasing all players, and I even agree that it would be amazing if Larian did that. But all of you have to stop comparing BG3 with games like PoE and Pathfinder, since you know as much as I do that the level of complexity of these games is much lower than even DOS2. BG3 is a gigantic game, and at the moment it is being built with TB in mind, that is, the levels, the animations, the balance, and several other things. So, trying to implement RTwP now would be disastrous, the game would only suffer. But even so I hope that after the game's release, Larian will at least try to implement RTwP, and I imagine that something DAO-style would be really cool.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha

You are full of it. Firstly, the discussion here is about RTwP v. TB. RTS games are completely different and separate from RTwP games. So clearly you are desperately engaging in obfuscation. Secondly, wrt RTwP games, their forums are loaded with demands from TB fans that the game be changed to TB. And that, ultimately, is my issue here. Far too many TB fans (though obviously not everyone) have the attitude that all cRPGs must be TB. RTwP fans however don't have that attitude or expectation, and are merely fighting to try and have at least a few RTwP cRPGs out there that we can play and enjoy.


That is utter bullshit. There are just as many RTwP fans out there that feel ALL cRPGs should be RTwP. YOU might not be a purist but you damn well know there are purists on both sides and to pretend otherwise is to engage in lies and obfuscation yourself.

There are irrational zealots on both sides of this equation and NO both sides have just any many as the other. Stop the self ego stroking of 'my side is not only "right" but morally superior' bullshit. It is nothing but bullshit and ego masturbation.

Last edited by Gothfather; 09/10/20 11:57 PM.
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Three things would make the game even better for me:
- RTwP option
- Voiced main charachter
- A bit wider vertical angle of view when zoomed

and I had not exparienced a single bug so far =)

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Originally Posted by Gothfather
Originally Posted by kanisatha

You are full of it. Firstly, the discussion here is about RTwP v. TB. RTS games are completely different and separate from RTwP games. So clearly you are desperately engaging in obfuscation. Secondly, wrt RTwP games, their forums are loaded with demands from TB fans that the game be changed to TB. And that, ultimately, is my issue here. Far too many TB fans (though obviously not everyone) have the attitude that all cRPGs must be TB. RTwP fans however don't have that attitude or expectation, and are merely fighting to try and have at least a few RTwP cRPGs out there that we can play and enjoy.


That is utter bullshit. There are just as many RTwP fans out there that feel ALL cRPGs should be RTwP. YOU might not be a purist but you damn well know there are purists on both sides and to pretend otherwise is to engage in lies and obfuscation yourself.

There are irrational zealots on both sides of this equation and NO both sides have just any many as the other. Stop the self ego stroking of 'my side is not only "right" but morally superior' bullshit. It is nothing but bullshit and ego masturbation.

LOL. Foaming at the mouth doesn't make the facts go away. I'm happy to double down on my words. Triple down. Quadruple down.

Last edited by kanisatha; 10/10/20 02:01 PM.
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