Originally Posted by Snardbuckett
right but all the flurry attacks are still restricted to martial arts. a flurrying monk at top level doesn't really attack much more than a fighter and all thier extra attacks are martial arts. if you want to flurry or martial arts you cannot use the offhand weapon attack they are mutually exclusive so speccing into fighter for the same damage dice does nothing but let you lose potential attack numbers for a more accurate 2 attack turn. which is still really low damage.

in regards to the shadow step it also prevents martial arts and flurry of blows because those are also bonus actions.

you just keep stringing bonus actions together like they can all be used at once. they cannot. dipping into paladin is basically a weaker version of speccing into rogue, smite uses your bonus action so you are using up your extra attacks to hit as hard as you would have if you didnt. Its also a limited resource, much like Ki. It also doesnt help you in ranged combat very much. a place the monk is incredibly weak in raw PHB. lazer monk mitigates this some but its not in the scope of this game.

Level wise they are very clearly talking in the 10-12 range.

"advantage a rogue can't" ove half your build is rogue .... way of the shadow is a rogue monk hybrid you are quoteing a 3/4 thf as being able to do things thiefs cant .... swashbuckler and samurai can get all these effects for 3 level dips. just no.,


Actually a top level fighter attacks more than a top level monk, that was never in question, and I'm not trying to compare them. And there was no point I was trying to argue the use of an offhand weapon. Martial arts is essentially dual wielding for monks, monks don't use an offhand but just like anyone else they can spend a bonus action to make an extra attack.. unarmed in the case of the monk. Flurry of blows simply lets you spend a ki to net an extra attack. The point is if you want +2 damage on monk weapon attacks, a small heal, and second wind and are willing to sink 2 levels to get that. Some people might, others might not. Same applies to paladin which I think is a much better dip, but both offer benefits to monk.

As for shadow step, yeah, you make a choice, an extra unarmed (or 2) attack or teleport with advantage on your first attack. I never meant to suggest you could do both, I meant to suggest you have options that rogues don't a big one being that you can give yourself advantage through shadow step and stunning strike. Shadow step when applicable also helps to mitigate ranged attacker by granting you insane mobility in exchange for your other bonus action options, monk mobility is a big part of how monks handle ranged attacks. Monks can't do everything at the same time, but they have a ton of bonus action options and a great reaction in deflect missiles. Cunning action and Uncanny dodge just bring more options to the table. And that is really what this comes down to, options.

As far as the last comment, less than half is rogue, but it's a pretty even split and if you recall the whole point was to show that monks have good mutli-class synergies and how that stacks up. As far as I know, swashbuckler and samurai aren't in the game either, though I could be wrong. It would be weird to include rogue and warrior subs from Xanathar's and not include Sun Soul. But yeah if we are talking table top then Inquisitive and swashbuckler open sneak attack options without advantage but don't give you advantage, samurai does however. But it also opens a lot more options for monk multiclassing with other subs. And when Cauldron comes out and the astral monk hits that will make things even better for monks imo.