Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Please have more faith in 5e rules

I think the addition of game play elements of divinity is a good idea, but I think they focus to much on them. It feels to much like divinity.
For me following the d&d rule set is optional but the game should feel like BG and playing around surfaces for example feels not like BG. It feels like divinity.

I agree, Divinity has a lot of good stuff to offer DnD in video game format, just not too much and I think its an especially bad idea to start rewriting corner stones of class mechanics in favor of jamming in divinity mechanics everywhere possible.
Like the ranger and rogue changes. I liked what they have done to the ranger class, it feels versatile and somewhere in between a rogue and a fighter depending what you focus on, but the rogue on the other hand has been completely shafted. Giving every class a bonus action disengage and removing expertise from rogues makes it almost pointless to play a rogue when the ranger can do the same job but better.

+1 on sticking closer to the 5e D&D rules.

I'm cool with Larian giving their own spin to it After all, the original BG series wasn't a 1-on-1 copy of 2nd edition aD&D. However a lot of the current spin looks really badly thought through. The surfaces on cantrips are my personal pet peeve. Not only because it makes cantrips really strong, but also because they cause interference for the melee classes.

That strategy between a melee front line and your wizard artillery is really important. As is the hammer and anvil tactics between the frontline and the rogue. That guy with sword and board is the linchpin. I know he's not glamourous but he's very important in D&D tactics. He's supposed to be in the way of the bad guys! In BG3 you don't really seem to need anyone filling that role. Just hop around, splash some goo on the ground and get the height advantage. I think you'll be hard pressed to get this game to feel like a Baldur's gate game without respecting the class roles and how they interact with each other.

The thing is...combat in DOS2 is fun, combat in BG3 right now is frustrating and kind of boring (1 action, 1 meeeeh bonus, move).
PnP D&D works because of the human element (DM). So Larian need to spice things up. Add some unique mechanic to counterbalance that cold, by the numbers computer DM. Maybe a DM bar/button which fills up as you battle (maybe because of too many critical misses, bad rolls, being slaughtered etc....), giving you bonuses or extra fun light rule braking abilities..."as the goblin lunges towards you for the killing blow, he slips on comrades corpses blood and impales himself..." kind of stuff. Basically a D100 of fun "larian touch" effects that can happen

Well - whether combat in DOS2 is fun is a matter of taste/perspective. To some it is very fun and enjoyable. I tried to play 20+ hours of both DOS1 and DOS2 before I gave up because I did not enjoy their combat systems, it was just wacky and cheesy and annoying to me. And I get the sense I am not alone.
Combat in BG3 could be fun, but the annoying surfaces and jump disengage are mechanics that take the fun away from me. If some bugs were fixed and those things were reduced/fixed, then I think I'd actually really enjoy combat in BG3.
The turn-based mode for Pillars of Eternity Deadfire is also a good inspiration that could be used.

I think the game/Larian needs to figure out if it wants to give DnD5e a serious chance (with some adaptations/changes where necessary) and make what they promised in most of the advertisements. Or if they want to make another Divinity game. The weird hybrid is not working for me at all. I am sure both could be good games - I know I won't enjoy it if they choose the Divinity path, but many others will. And I'm sure some won't enjoy it if they choose the DnD5e path, but then many others will. The hybrid seems to just make most of the people from both sides of that "divide" annoyed.

The "5E is not perfect" argument is silly at best. And in reality it is just another straw man. Nobody is claiming the system is perfect. And yes, we can ask for a somewhat faithful adaptation of 5e. The core rules stay mostly the same if you add optional rules, and saying it is a work in progress is stretching it. TTRPG's have always released new books, but they mostly add options.

That being said, I find it funny that you think 5e needs to be perfect. DoS is far, far from being perfect. And "spicing" things up with surfaces does not help the game ... people complained about the surfaces in DoS2 too. So why do you have faith Larian will improve upon the mechanics of the most popular D&D edition to date? The changes to rogue does not make the class less "boring" as you put it. How sneak attack is applied is actually unintuitive and clutters up the UI with abilities. I would strongly argue that the way 5e applies sneak attack is superior for a video game. And removing expertise from the rogue does not make it more fun either. Being a skill monkey is part of the fun when playing a rogue. Not only that, but rogue and monk also lost some of its coolness factor by giving everyone access to a bonus action disengage. And if you fear some martials will be boring, then give them more actions from 5e instead (grapple etc). And does every game need to cater to the lowest common denominator? The people who get bored unless there are tons of swooshes and bangs everywhere?

Many of the changes to the core rules have cascading effects too. Most of 5e's systems are tightly knit together, so when you change 1 thing you are going to have to change 3-4 more. At some point it stops feeling like D&D. And the balance becomes even worse than what it is in 5e. Firebolt applying damage 3 times for example. Because Wizards need help ... And look at how easy it is to abuse advantage now that they have have added facing.

Like I have written in this thread and others, I think game mode options would solve these problems. A game mode more in line with 5e rules (No surfaces from cantrips, shove as an action etc), and a game mode for the crowd that wants explosions and seas of acid everywhere. This wouldn't even require much coding.

Agreed... yes, D&D combat can be tedious, much less so in 5e then in earlier editions (looking at you, 3.5), but - especially in early levels and with certain clases - it can be kinda dull. Good thing, though, it's quick - at least it should be - and it's getting much more engaging in later levels. The infinity engine games had a similar "issue", but since they where real time with pause, the fights where over much quicker in the early game... and I think that where Larian has to get to. Find a way to speed up the flow of turn based combat. It's possible! For instance: Automatically end turns when characters have exhausted all their actions, shorten animations. drop some of the eloborate fireworks, hide enemy movements when they aren't in line of sight of the characters, there are many options.

Don't just go: "Yea, we know it's dull, but look, splosions!"

A D&D 5e can be FUN without being like DOS2. Bend the rules a bit, like a human D&D DM. 100% by the book computer DMs (PnP) are the most boring games around...from my experience anyways.

I agreed with this statement. From their statement about how they want to stay faithful to DND 5e, the resting mechanic is not even close. Being able to long rest anytime and anywhere negate the concept of spell slot, resources management. Shoving as a bonus action is too strong, and shoving anything is nut. My weak medium creature should not be able to shove a giant robot off a tower. Even if his chance is low it does happen often. How does a low strength char shove a thousand pound stuff through the air 4.5M??? what? Everyone having disengage as a bonus action is not like 5e... this nerf attack of opportunity especially for melee class when everyone can hop out of the way without provoking attack of opportunity. The ground affect is way too much damg. I like it, but right now a cantrip (fire bolt) can do so much damg even if it miss!!! In 5e if it miss, then it misses, but in this it's a guaranteed damg because it will set the target on fire and cause damg when they move through it.... There is so much more i can go into, but I agreed the MAIN CORE MECHANIC of DnD 5e is not being honor right now.

Oh god...this just made me realise what my first proper playthrough felt like...

Michael Bay the CRPG