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Originally Posted by mahe4
Originally Posted by dunehunter
Originally Posted by mahe4
larian broke a lot with their new action economy design choices.
imagine now, your rogue takes magic initiate (warlock) as lvl 4 feat and you hex your enemies.
all 3 attacks get an extra 1d6 damage.

by giving everyone the special rogue ability to do lot of things with bonus actions, they had to give rogue something special.
they gave rogue (thief) a second bonus action.
by giving rogue (thief) the second bonus action, they took away, what is special about the monk (the many attacks).
i hope they stop right now with their redesign choices, because right now it looks like they have to redesign a lot, to not make one class lack luster...


The cascading effect might be more than that, they also have a new backstab mechanism which grant everyone free advantage, imagining it took away what is special about barbarian & reckless attack, blind spell and etc, they have to do more redesign to rebalance it.


do you mean the "backstab" advantage?
do you only need to hit someone from behind or do you need a second melee character threatening them?
if the former, then it would be really insane... i have noticed that backstab advantage, but didn't know yet, what was required for it...


I actually show a gif of sneak attacking from a backstab in my thread all that is required is you are behind the target http://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=684282#Post684282

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Originally Posted by mahe4

but back to topic. thiefs getting a second bonus action is something that larian invented. it isn't in the original rule set of 5e, and for good reason.


I'm guessing it was meant as a concession since they made Disengage, Dash and such bonus actions for everyone. Then they realised the Rogue had basically been reduced to a Sneak Attack feature, and decided that the non-arcane path could get a second bonus action. But likely these choices were made separately and the second as a response to the first rather than both of them being part of a balanced design approach, so now mechanical premise (the D&D 5th edition ruleset) slowly gets eroded and Larian will probably come up with new modifications to the ruleset to fix their previous modifications to the ruleset... It could easily turn into a domino-effect of "fixes" because every time they modify a class or a feature it unbalances two others, which then need "fixing", and so on...

Last edited by Khorvale; 10/10/20 12:34 PM.
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All of this really makes me wish we could play EA with 100% faithful 5e rules as a starting point. Then change only what *really* doesn't work in a video game.

None of the Larian changes seem necessary so far. I can understand reactions slowing down the game maybe too much if done by the letter but the rest is just...why?

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Originally Posted by mahe4
larian broke a lot with their new action economy design choices.
imagine now, your rogue takes magic initiate (warlock) as lvl 4 feat and you hex your enemies.
all 3 attacks get an extra 1d6 damage.


If you skip 4 rogue levels you're giving up 2d6 sneak die's. The offhand attacks also do not get your ability modifier to hit, so that would surely lead to a decrease in overall damage.

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Originally Posted by Ascorius
Some of the changes made to 5e's ruleset are baffling to me. I might be totally wrong, but it makes me think the designers lack knowledge concerning 5e. The ruleset is well tested, and yes, it has some issues at high levels, but it works well. And I struggle to think of good gameplay reasons for the changes. If they keep these weird rebalanced classes and abilities, I really hope they give grognards like me a game mode that lets me play with a 5e ruleset (or something closer to it at least).


I expect the issue is they started with the Divinity Engine where lots of stuff was already "working" and been tweaking stuff to follow 5e rules so stuff is not getting tweaked correctly.

If they had to start from scratch to build a 5e Engine, they would have had to look at the rules to see how X works instead of adjusting an existing system and expecting they are getting it right.

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