Originally Posted by Xerophyte
Originally Posted by clavis
... they want everything handed to them on a silver and gold platter. In short they want to win immediately and they don't care how they go about it.


Good to know that I still have the power of divination laugh


I'm not saying anyone is making anyone else do anything. Most players just consider some conversation outcomes to be failure states, in the same way they consider some combat outcomes to be failure states. When in the failure state, they reload. Every video game with saves is designed with that loop in mind. You can wish it were otherwise, feel free, but that doesn't really change how people work (apparently you need a fortress' worth of regret for it).

In the combat case, I think it's fair to say that the majority of crpgs have combat encounters that are way harder than anything a GM would regularly throw at people, because the game designers recognize that players can simply redo the combat if they dislike the outcome (i.e. they die horribly) and challenging encounters that can and do kill you are fun for players to solve. Do you also refuse to reload the game after party wipes? If you're OK with combat being more challenging since you can save and reload, why shouldn't dialogue be similarly impacted?


Divination lol nice.

I can see your point on failure states, and it's going to happen on every game. Yet we don't know the full outcome until we fail, (are there repercussions down the road?) or until we succeed (is there repercussions to succeeding) how each affect the story (that isn't finished) further down the road. If your trying to beat everything you'll never know what happened if you failed. In combat it tends to mostly end the game. What about conversation skill checks, if you fail to beat the wisdom needed to read Gales mind, does it cut off a future story branch down the road, or does it open something else up. If you simply reload your not going to know. Yet people chose to reload, and in cases of rpg lose out on alternate paths, or endings. So their divination is flawed they only want the best, the greatest outcome with reloading saves on failed checks.

The thing about difficult are nearly impossible combats are they tend to end the game. That is the one and only outcome should you lose, unlike in conversations where your failure may have impacts down the road. May make the next roll in the conversation harder, or may cause a companion to leave you. (Currently the rolls in conversations need work.) Yet combat reloading and conversation reloading are two different things. One combat has only one outcome, game over. Conversation can have multipule outcomes if you fail, one being combat.