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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Apr 2014
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There are several problems with the Larian solution:
- it's slower to use properly when precision is required.
- it's less accurate.
- it's a mess that turns into a comedic skit with idiots running randomly anywhere in any situation where you need to give everyone QUICK instructions on where to position.
- that mess can be deadly when there are combat triggers and/or traps around.
+1
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veteran
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OP
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
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Not to pat myself in the back, but four full pages of thread in and this must be possibly the LEAST divisive topic on this board and the one suggestion where I think every single reply so far agrees with.
I posted the same summary of the issue on Steam as well and even there I have yet to see a single reply of someone disagreeing that these controls are bad and traditional RTS.like ones would be a significant improvement.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying this to compliment myself, but just to stress a thing to Larian: when even in a forum like this you can hardly find a single person willing to defend the system you are using, there must be something genuinely weak about it that NEEDS to be addressed.
In general, even about other popular topics, I wish devs would make us hear their opinions more frequently about the feedback they are receiving etc.
Right now it's hard to know if they have even acknowledged this as a problem at all, let alone if they have plans on acting to solve it.
Last edited by Tuco; 13/10/20 01:44 AM.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
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This is also not the only post/thread on this topic. The party movement management is the absolute worst part about this otherwise enjoyable game for me. If it didn't take an age to "Quick" load I might be more forgiving, but when I spend ten minutes trying to position everyone just so, only to misclick and have someone who was grouped move in the wrong way and trigger a trap, or walk through a flaming gas pocket, or any number of other stupid things they do, it gets frustrating.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
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Was going to post something similar. I notice it a lot, when I use Shadowheart to cast Guidance. The part runs around like coked up toddlers, as I attempt to cast it on my chosen character. I’d much prefer BG1/2 where, when you select the active character, no party members move unless you select a spot on the world...and then they take position according to marching orders. The animation should be: select Shadowheart, cast Guidance, click on portrait of selected target party member, confirm, (Animation) Shadowheart moves within range and buffs said character.
Also need a drag and select party members and tab-click select party members. The whole chain/group thing is ok in DOS, but doesn’t work well in BG.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
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Quick compliment: this game is going to be amazing and kudos to Larian!
I find it really frustrating that when my party is “grouped/chained” and I move my selected character to jump up a hill, the rest of the party (and summons) don’t follow. Really need the friendly AI to be better on map navigation. If I wanted only my selected character to move through that path, I would have ungrouped/unchained them, right?
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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Sorry for the blunt title, I tried a more polite "Honest feedback: I don't like the way Larian defaults control of the whole party" but I ran out of characters half way through the sentence.
Aaaanyway, back to the topic.
This control based on the position of a single character with all companions defaulting on auto-follow is genuinely cumbersome when you compare it to pretty much any other RPG in the same subgenre: the old BG games, Torment, Icewind Dale, Temple of Elemental Evil, Pillars of Eternity, Pathfinder, etc., where you simply cliclck and drag to select multiple characters, keep them in a formation you can rotate dragging the cursor and you can quickly send each one of them in different direction with ONE click.
There are several problems with the Larian solution:
- it's slower to use properly when precision is required.
- it's less accurate.
- it's a mess that turns into a comedic skit with idiots running randomly anywhere in any situation where you need to give everyone QUICK instructions on where to position.
- that mess can be deadly when there are combat triggers and/or traps around.
I can't honestly think of a single excuse to defend this "innovative" system they introduced since DOS1 in comparison with the above-mentioned titles.
I have to ask my fellows forum dwelllers: is there ANYONE who actually likes the Larian system the most? And if that's the case can that good soul (may the gods have mercy on him) tell us WHY?
Couldn't agree more. The current way to control your group is horrific, and add the terrible pathing and the overly finicky way to attach/detatch and rearrange characters on top of that and you get a mess when trying to move your party around with any kind of precision. Oh, and another thing that also adds to this is the fact that sometimes I have to click a character portrait two or three times before it actually gets selected. (and no, there is nothing wrong with my mouse)
Last edited by Peranor; 13/10/20 04:20 AM.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
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100% agreement.
Playing this game feels like I'm fighting the controls the entire time. BG3 has really cool 3D environments, and the addition of jumping opens up all kinds of awesome exploration options ... but it suuucks trying to micromanage a party over even a small gap. Or to split them up to get everyone in position before a fight. Even just getting the weirdly restrictive camera to point at where you want to go/look is a pain.
Guys, CRPGs figured all these things out years ago; just use RTS controls and a WoW-style camera we can aim anywhere. Please; I want to like this game, but it's just aggravating to play.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
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Agree with OP. So many examples of games that do this well. Just follow their example on this one.
I think a lot of it works if you have multiplayer going... but its rough for single player. Companions shouldn't be a huge pain in the ass to manage.
also make companions actually do things in conversations more. Like Rogue pulls a knife and knocks you to the ground and your companions just stand idly by and watch? Glad to see they have my back...
Last edited by Matey; 13/10/20 04:49 AM.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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Basically:
-yes it's idiotic that NPC's "follow" me through poison/acid/whatever when I (that character) did NOT walk in it in the first place.
-there should be a 'stay put' command, as even in stealth the NPCs, pets, whatever still follow and do so unwisely (as noted above).
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2020
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While I completely agree that party movement controls in the DoS/BG3 systems are far inferior to that of BG2/PoE/Pathfinder, I suspect this is one area of the game we are least likely to see a change in, as programming party movement is such a basic building block for a game, at this point that would likely have to junk much of what has been done and start over from scratch.
That being said, this is fortunately one of the few systems I absolutely dislike. Most of the other game issues thus far can be resolved with tweaking or supportive systems - not wholesale tear down and rebuild.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
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+1
I don't have much to add, that hasn't been said.
Out of combat, and especially immediately after combat, don't walk in the things!
Selecting characters should definitely be handled better too.
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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While I completely agree that party movement controls in the DoS/BG3 systems are far inferior to that of BG2/PoE/Pathfinder, I suspect this is one area of the game we are least likely to see a change in, as programming party movement is such a basic building block for a game, at this point that would likely have to junk much of what has been done and start over from scratch.
That being said, this is fortunately one of the few systems I absolutely dislike. Most of the other game issues thus far can be resolved with tweaking or supportive systems - not wholesale tear down and rebuild. Admittedly i'm not a game developer. But surely it can't be such a monumental task to adjust the way you select and handle your party?
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veteran
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OP
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
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Admittedly i'm not a game developer. But surely it can't be such a monumental task to adjust the way you select and handle your party?
Yeah, I don't see it being a massive commitment either. The building blocks for the control system we are asking for are already in place after all. Aside from permitting (and visualizing on the UI) multiple unit selection it would at most require some minor tweaking at the camera in some specific areas (and that's mostly because it's a required improvement in general, not even specific to RTS-styled controls).
Last edited by Tuco; 13/10/20 03:30 PM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
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+1,it will be good to have movement/party system like in real Baldurs Gate.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
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+1
The controls shouldn't make basic interaction with the game this frustrating. Why fix what wasn't broken?
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
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I don't like that there's like a 0.5 second delay between clicking to move and the character actually moving. Compared to WL3 where movement is instant upon clicking, BG3 feels sluggish and imprecise, like the animation blending between standing and moving needs to be sped up.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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+1
This is the topic of universal agreement.
Necromancy is just recycling...
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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Drag select is the future indeed...+1 but i guess it's their trade mark ?
Hopefully they can get pass that and actually do whats good for the player?
But it did get pass EA in DoS 2 so i doubt they gonna fix it here.. At best they could add drag select i reckon.
Somehow i get the feeling that they aren't into all this suggestion forum business... And all they care is about their metadata. hopefully i'm wrong...
Last edited by Lastman; 13/10/20 07:54 PM.
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veteran
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OP
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
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The irony of the situation is that addressing this problem would not just improve the overall usability of the controls by a wide margin in general, but also go a LONG way to re-establish the feeling of "being a proper Baldur's Gate rather than DOS 3" that a lot of players are lamenting about.
In fact, a better point & click control scheme AND a six-men party for the single player, if combined, would probably address the overwhelming majority of the grievances about "feeling more DOS than anything".
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2020
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Not to pat myself in the back, but four full pages of thread in and this must be possibly the LEAST divisive topic on this board and the one suggestion where I think every single reply so far agrees with.
I posted the same summary of the issue on Steam as well and even there I have yet to see a single reply of someone disagreeing that these controls are bad and traditional RTS.like ones would be a significant improvement.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying this to compliment myself, but just to stress a thing to Larian: when even in a forum like this you can hardly find a single person willing to defend the system you are using, there must be something genuinely weak about it that NEEDS to be addressed.
Not so fast, sunshine. First off, I fully agree that it’s currently quite wonky, and even in DOS2 it was a bit cumbersome. However, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the whole linking party members system in principle, it just needs some refinement. There’s certainly some advantages to a system where you can separate one or more characters and leave the rest moving as a group. Particularly in a game where you can send one character off to the other end of the map to do things separate from from the rest of the party. I imagine it’s pretty useful for multiplayer, so for instance 2 players can have 2 teams of 2 moving together, without having to constantly select 2 characters to move. There’s certainly big issues with pathfinding, using stealth, and even the dragging to link and unlink characters (which really should have been improved 2 games ago), but the basic system isn’t bad at all. If they fix things like the pathfinding and the amount your lead character gets ahead, and add some shortcuts for linking and unlinking party members (eg shift-click to unlink and move) then it could be a better system than other games. I’m not sure why some want to drag a selection box around characters they want to move in 3D game with so much height variation. It works well for infinity engine and similar games, but that doesn’t mean it would work well for this one.
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