Originally Posted by Orbax
Originally Posted by Strongchad386


I want you to know that I appreciate the devil's advocate position, but I'm not sure you're seeing what I'm saying. For you, she's "fine" and that's okay. For me, it would take a minor change to take her from "fine" to "fun". Because that's the thing, isn't it? She's not fun. To use one of your examples: my issue isn't that she *can't* be going forth and be the Stealth hero, it's that she *won't* go forth and be the Stealth Hero. It's not that she *can't* tank or be the face - it's just that there are better party members to do it. She might not be the worst party member at everything you'd want her to do, it's just that there's always someone else who does it better. And that leads me to reference your very last point: are you telling me you're perfectly happy to give her Shield of Faith if that means she can't concentrate on Bless or Bane instead? You don't think that needlessly sacrifices a Cleric's versatility/utility?


I was mainly saying that if you wanted to do any of those things, you could. Why a cleric would be stealthing around alone, I dont know, but you could. Why a cleric should be the tank, I dont know, but you could. Shes the best at being a cleric - a reasonably armored individual that is there to buff, CC, or heal that shouldn't be put into vulnerable positions in the first place. She can cast and go around a corner and stealth, she can have the item that gives misty step and cast and bamf, she really only needs to get one thing going that is concentration and then can heal as needed, sacred flame otherwise, and end every turn in a safe spot. It sounds like people want to do a lot more with her.

As a person who plays several clerics across several campaigns of different domains - my job is to be the last person to be targeted, my spells are too critical to waste. This game nerfs spell distances, which is unfortunate, but gives powerful tools like stealth, jump, and misty step, plus other stuff to allow you to use her as a full blooded cleric. I think if people want her to be in the middle of everything using inflict wounds - thats a shield, shield of faith, hat +1 dex saves, misty step necklace, and some health potions build.

Depends on what fun is, I guess. Every fight has a long rest after it anyway, currently. Use all the spells you normally wouldnt because youre a smart D&D player and you dont blow all your slots every fight you run into. If people are wanting her to not need any spells or special items and to be close to the group and in the open, then she absolutely needs to be different and you will not get any arguments from me there.



First thing I'm not nitpicking or playing around. What does bamf stand for???

Okay that aside. you don't need to long rest between every battle I tend to do it every third unless it's especially draining on resources. Though with my test builds I'm not as far as others, so take that with a grain of salt, a pinch of lemon, aaand mmmmmm...

My main problem with her is that you literally have to hide her, so she can't stand in front line leading you only one solid front liner, if she's concentrating on a spell. For some reason her sacred flame is always saved against forcing you to use guiding bolt which takes a spell slot, losing what could be a needed clutch heal. It to me seems she is more like a bard, jack of all trades master of none, compared to other clerics. Who can use sacred flame for damage, while holding up as a secondary tank in case people get past and to your wizard. Which game tends to target squishies first, sound strategy really. Yet so far I find her to be underwhelming and thats in the usually easier early game. She doesn't need a major overhaul imo, she just needs tweaks to make her more effective, and thus able to stand with the other companions.