Originally Posted by clavis
Originally Posted by UnderworldHades
Now, I'm creating this because Larian stated they wanted people to be evil and to test it to make it worth being evil, and having a satisfying story. For this particular discussion I'm gonna focus on the Goblin vs Grove situation, so FULL SPOILERS for that.

I'm gonna start off by saying right off the bat, when you go back to the tieflings and go "im joining the goblins", all my companions disapproved except Astarion, and I mention this because they said we will be getting evil/neutral companions for EA and from the start of being evil the player is punished. If these so called Evil companions disagree with me, then there is a few major issues with the evil storyline, which is what I want to talk about.

Now, from the the player is abducted and had a tadpole inserted into their eye and the companions they meet are adamant about having this removed, and that's fine. But the narrative doesn't really PUSH you towards being evil and neither do these companions. Now the biggest lead you have for this is Halsin, and i would consider him to be on the "good" side, where I should side with the grove to get his help. What incentive is there for me to help the goblins? The game doesn't really do anything to push their agenda and make you want to do. A smart evil character would still help Grove and get Halsins help because they want to figure out what's going on, what the option we have now is stupid evil instead. We are never enticed with anything to go join the Absolute. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to get out of helping the goblins and Minthara kill everyone. There isn't an enticing promise of answers or rewards for going down that path vs. just helping the refugees and finding Halsin to heal you from the tadpole. Right now the only reason you would help is because "fuck all these refugees and druids". Again, stupid evil IMO.

Everything up to that point in the game (being kidnapped by Illithids, all your companions explaining what the tadpoles do, and being concerned with getting healed) reinforces that we should want nothing to do with the Absolute because they violated us and will rid us of our free will if we don't get rid of the parasite. No type of evil character would want to help the goblins because we get nothing. Hell I lost Wyll after that, which is cool, and a good consequence, but that's it. I gained nothing from this it seems like. Now, I will say I'm interested in the story still. I wanna know what happens if I follow this trail, will i see Minthara again, will she be a companion or a returning side character? There is potential but just to see what could happen, but there are no rewards. You don't get any extra powers from it, nothing about healers (the priestess Gut wants to kill me bc I took the "Drow" option with sleep potion and then she goes "oh this will hurt"). I guess it was cool I had sex with her? But I mean at that night 3 of my companions were ready to sleep with me, and I lost 1 companion and gained...nothing.

Now I think the best way to fix it would be to have Minthara or someone else meet you REALLY early on and tell you, maybe entice you about the powers you can get. Have her tell you about the true souls, she shows you the power you can get if you use the tadpole, but right now there isn't anything like it. No character storywise would want to help goblins, even an evil one (smart evil one). It's kind of funny when the tiefling "Zevlor" asked me why I was doing this and i was like "uhhh....Bc Larian told me to? Whoops!" In the end, the Evil storyline for Grove vs Goblin needs more rewards and enticing. Why should my character risk dealing with them instead of looking for a healer, especially Halsin who is the best lead. Should I be doing it bc I got to bang the drow lol?

Would love to hear other peoples thoughts on what they think of this, and maybe ways to fix it, that way Larian can add/make some changes to make the evil side satisfying.


Then what about siding with the cambion?

As for Halsin if he is as he seems to be then he is good, and helping him means you may have just helped a powerful enemy down the line, once your evil ways are known. Aiding Kagha seems the better choice, because she wants the grove locked. Yet if you follow grove free Halsin, he takes over again in the grove, again he appears to be good by him letting in the refugees, so your arming a potential enemy not only by giving him his grove back, but keeping it whole/intact. He's also made friends with the refugees by letting them in, they are another potential enemy or at least spies for Halsin.

If you help the goblins, destroy the grove, kill refugees you've elminated Halsins power base, and followers, and kept his potential allies from becoming stronger, or making more allies. Lowered the chance that he'll be able to come after you if you turn evil, and since you helped the goblins, they can serve as distractions for any bloody Heros that may want to target you, because your evil. Instead they have to focus on the goblin, with Priestess Guts. The Emerald Enclave then has to turn their attention towards the goblins to retaliate and reclaim Halsin's grove, Balders Gate has a large group of better armed, and prepared goblins then the usual masses on their doorstep. Again bigger threat for the moment then you. So 'stupid evil' or is it your playing for the long run, covering your tracks, by keeping everyone focused on other for the moment bigger threats while you go do what you gotta do. Taking out potential threats before they realize your a threat, and making all the other goody goods think it was someone/something else?


Do you mean Raphael when you say cambion? Because he only appeared once for me and never got a chance to make the deal. And as with the rest (including cambion), yes i can do those things, but the question is WHY. Even an evil character (smart evil character) would not make a deal with raphael. Why would he/she? You're trading your soul essentially and that is all the Cambions, devils etc deal in. A evil character is selfish, they won't make a deal that jeopardizes them. In the same vain, yes i helped the Goblins, but storywise it makes no sense for my character to do that. We are never enticed into doing it except because my character is just...bloodthirsty? For the sake of twirling mustache evil? The main focus of the storyline is pushing for a healer, the best one being Halsin so why would an evil character who cares about themselves first and foremost not want to do w/e it takes to help Halsin to get the help they need. The character needs more to go on to be evil and side with goblins.

I did that quest by siding with the goblins and i killed everyone, in the end nothing about a healer happened, i lost a companion bc he didnt want to be with me (which is fine), but i also didn't gain anything. No new power, no amazing loot given to me by the drow, she didnt join as a companion, i got nothing. Like I said, im curious to see how that story goes, it did a decent job of making me want to see what's next but not my character. Our character is not told why we should care about The Absolute or what it can do for us. Even the "evil" companions want healers to get rid of the tadpole except Astarion. Your points about "goblins serve as distractions" means nothing. It's just you making up story of what they can do. It doesn't solve the issue of why the character should follow them in terms of story. There is no "keeping everyone focused on other threats", there is no system like this in the game. It's very basic 1 for 1 right now.