Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Feedback and thoughts on Evil Side

If you can't explore an area because something alive is blocking your path, then you aren't playing an Evil character correctly.

I'm not familiar enough with DnD rules but some tiefling in the druid camp gives you a soul coin without much prodding. She thinks you're some Devil's agent come to collect. She just gives it to you. Couldn't you pay Raphael with that?

#1 helsin is good do to certain readables within the grove, also he has invited the refugees to stay, when everyone else in the grove is against it. Also other readables inside the grove tell of the groves past. By talking to the refugees, and druids you learn more of the going on around you. The frequent attacks by monster races, you yourself witnessed goblins attacking the grove.

#2. Again by talking to the refugees you learn about your immedaite surroundings, by talking to the druids you learn of their feelings towards the refugees, and also the current politics of the druids. Which by more talking you learn that more about Halsin. Then by looking at readables you learn yet more about him, again another conversation and you learn more about him. By exploring the camp and talking to certain people you learn of Priestess Guts. Knowing about Heros, and Balder Gate guards is simple Heros are always searching for evil, and alot of history which you learn in Menzobarean deals with Lloths truimphs over these Heros. A city having guards patrolling is just common sense, all cities have guards, they are always on the lookout. Drow raid topside so they learn about the land above them. As for Gith her information is coming from a conversation with La'eazel, also La'eazel is always vocal about how the creche will provide a cure. So again conversations, reading, exploring inside and before the Grove leads to these non meta information.

#3 again it comes from talking to certain people or person within the Grove. As for goblins most everyone knows about/heard about goblin raids, and goblin ambushes etc. Bards sing of deeds down by mighty hero's, maybe a Hero themself once talked to your character. As a drow my character's house even if minor would have goblin slaves, among other slaves. Also again the history taught within the drow schools to the Drow, or even her parents. Then after witnessing the goblin attack, talking, exploring, and reading whats laying about, or things that just happen to fall into your lap.

Your character may find all of this out. If they don't then he/she may, or may not come to the same conclussion. I was just proposing one, of several different conclusions and plots that may come to mind. Maybe they miss one thing only to learn about it in another encounter, maybe they feel that Halsin will never be a threat to them, so they side with him. Without moving past the Grove I've came up with several different options just from what I gathered in that one spot, and talking to my companions. It can further evolve as you get a better sense of everything through more encounters, the one I presented is theoritically sound, and may very well be what your character comes up with. yet as a theory based off information gathered it isn't proven in fact and therefore needs more investigation by my character. Then there is what may or may not happen on the road that may sway her into a different view, or another theory. Also her personal goals may change, therefore opening up different avenues of thought, and alternative theories. Which as of yet are not plans, just theories, based upon information gathering, and knowledge of goblins, and other monster races.

I'm not a murder hobo. There is no gain in it and too much risk. Lawful evil playthrough just doesn't make sense to me. The only option in bg3 so far is stupid evil. Besides it's missing the point. Avoid goblins to go meet goblins? I need some seriously powerful motivation to go do what larian wants me to do and it's just not there.

you learn about Halsins healing inside the grove from multipule people, you may later learn about it from some other source depending on what you do, where you go. The same is true for Priestess Gut, most of what you learn is centered within the druids Grove well it's the easiest place to pick up info. Other paths you take may well lead you to some of the knowledge found in the grove, but not all of it. As for avoiding goblins that also depends on where you go. I believe not 100% certain there is a path around the goblins, but again your looking for a healer. If you chose to not go into the grove that limits you to the cambion (if/when he shows up) and the Creche right at that point. yet you also don't learn things that La'eazel wants you to at that point.

think empathy towards the substitute is based on your character. One playthrough I saw her point, do to her desperation, and one of the things in her cut scene. Another I didn't let the cutscene play out and just killed her. Another I tried to intimidate her, another persuade her. I've killed her, knocked her unconscious, all depending on my character. I've missed lore because my character couldn't be bothered with it, so pretty much empathy towards her is based on what you think your character would do. Also if you notice some things in her cutscene and can try to read her feelings through what can be interpreted or misinterpreted by them. Then theirs dice rolls, etc. So lots of options to take, just which is best for what your character wants to do. Of course new things down the road may sway them, or make them regret a previous decision.

Oh yeah there is that too lol. I dont think that coin has have had any use yet in EA, maybe something that pops up later? One of them could be for Raphael.

The problem with the priestess Gut route is that firstly, it seems quite easy to never hear about her, at least that was the case in my playthrough. Second is that you're never given a reason to think that the cult of the Absolute is anything more than a Mindflayer trap, and this is the important part. You're given no indication that they can actually help you in any real way and it's an unwise risk because you're risking the possibility that they can give you more power if you're right against the certainty of a fate worse than death if you're wrong. They need to be far more clear about what The Absolute can give you and that it's a viable way to deal with the tadpole, one that's not just a mindflayer trap, because at this point I recieved no evidence at all that it wasn't mindflayer manipulation.

Raphael is a risky proposition but one that I think a certain type of evil character would go for. It's risky, but someone confident they could play their cards right might take it.

Then with Halsin the problem with your thoughts here is that why would the PC feel the need to take Halsin into their future calculations? They don't actually live in the area, they're from Baldurs gate or potentially the Underdark. Either way wherever they're from it's far enough that Halsin's never heard of them and they've never heard of him. Presumably once they deal with the tadpole an evil character would be going back home where unless they're planning to like, take over the area, they would never have to be concerned with Halsin again. So Halsin is still a viable, reasonable option.

And then of course there's the Creche, which at first blush is the most obvious option for an evil character. They have a Githyanki in their party that can give them access to a creche and a means of healing themselves. She's the person with the most actual knowledge about Mindflayers currently in the party and her route is the most simple and direct one. By rights most evil characters shouldn't want to get involved with the goblins and druids at all because they call for a lot more runarounds and extra effort.

Pretty much this. Playing the smart evil route simply isn't viable yet in EA, hopefully it will be in the future. There's still the issue that if you skip the goblins/grove/hag that you'll be way underlevelled to be able to actually go the githyanki route though since the patrol is level 5 and you'll be at best level 2 if you go straight for the bridge. Not to mention that you'll be missing out on companion / tadpole interactions in the camp.

There are more than one way to be evil, for instance helpinga khaga, I did a perfectly fine evil playthrough, roleplaying a character that considered themselves too good to go as low as to make an aliance with goblins, and ultimately killed them, but also helped khaga and the shadow druids and did a lot of evil choices.
Personaly I think that most evil characters should still despise goblins and don't want an aliance, specialy considering you are not there as theyer better but as one of their rank, actually taking orders from the goblin true soul, which evil characters with an ounce of self respect would do that?
I found that making an evil characters is not that hard, it's not about killing everyone that isn't evil as well, but making the choices that mostly benefit you, no Mather the consequences to others

+1

I was going to make a similar post to this.
The only reason I don't play "evil" is because evil seems like the worse choice.

Another issue I have in general with "the bad boy" route is that the bad boy choices seem to be the ones where you cut yourself off from content.
The "evil" thing to do isn't to go "Gosh Golly, please be my friend" to party members, it's to be "okay, you are on your own"

But why should it be the player characters choice to invite a character to the party? It would be better if they ask to join ME, and for me to react to that.

Evil to me is generally opportunistic, but they generally seem to be the bad solutions, and usually the ones that get's most of your party's disapproval. This is a party based game, so your party's approval is actually a huge control mechanism on what you choose to do. I'd love to see the cast of party members doubled, that way I would have the ability to let the correct people into my midst to play the evil route
Being introduced to the Absolute early on, by someone who speaks of it as a way to control the tadpole would make the choice of Removal or Integration a lot more interesting.

Further more, all the people who claim to know how to help you come up short, or are trying to trick you. So trusting the Goblin camp isn't exactly high on the list.

I have planned to go Team Goblin in my next playthrough, but I'm fearing how it will turn out to be honest... I fear I will have 4 grumpy party members on my hand.

As Lolth-Sworn Drow for instance you hate the mind flayers and their "True Souls" but also wouldn't give a crap about refugees and Druids. It would be a matter of the enemy of my enemy is my friend (for now).

Good points to each, and believe it is much easier to work with now that it's explained from your view point. The Absolute from what I heard in the Grove not going on other conversations, and I may have heard wrong is a Goddess. So that is a sure fire way to get rid of the bug, if a mortal creature is able to put it in your head, Goddess can take it out with no difficulty what so ever. Though as you stated it's a cult with Priestess Guts at it's head it seems. If indeed you hear correctly that the Absolute is a goddess it's not a mind flayer trap do to the mind flayers not having a god but the Elder brain. (which as a drow my character would know. vs someone from the surface world wouldn't probably.) In any case it is worth a look, to further access if it is, or isn't. From what people know about Mind Flayers mostly from the ship, and if you read (actually it psionically projects something in your head. can be taken a couple ways since it is all together 3 lines.) the reports on the ship it gives some details as to mind flayers for those that don't know much about them. So my theory (note what i said and I apologize for being obscure, though I later amended it) is a theory, and needs further information gathering.

Raphael is risky, yet people do things like that for power alot they know it's inherently risky, yet still do it. After all if he has your soul, something people dont' use when their alive then why not right?? Also depending on how long your character lives, what class they are they might find a way to in the end get out of that deal. Lichdom being one way. Still risky, yet other ways as someone else stated to get out of it.

Halsin many of the characters despite Drow, and Gith seem to hail from Balders Gate which isn't from what has been said in game far from the Grove. If your character plans on doing evil things then he may and or may not think getting rid of the Grove, maybe even taking it over, since he has support currently be a good thing. After all now is a better chance to strike when everything is choatic then later when it's stable. Then there is the a chance the druids have powerful items that may help as well, if you can use them yourself you don't need Halsin. (again a theory that may or may not be true for your character. The idol does seem like a powerful magic foci). So it is an option both ways with again nothing concrete and noone at this time knows if Halsin is dead or not when you first hear about him. You know he's been captured, and goblins don't hold onto prisoners for long. (another find is goblin history, customs etc)

Dependng on backstory you made for your character it may not be wise to resettle again in Balders Gate, or the Underdark, or wherever you came from first. Or they're bored with it want new things etc., and a druid grove that is at first look well fortified would be a good place to start if its what they want to do building a base of power, especially do to the rumors of alot of monster races you can frighten, persuade etc to join in your cause.

Working with Gith is risky, sure Le'azel is adament about it, but Gith for the large part is the biggest unknown. More so then any of the other options, you know 1 gith. The fact you actually met a Gith is 'boggling' since they're from another plane of existance and more secretive then even Mind Flayers. So their culture, their wants, and desires are completely unknown. If you simply go by Le who is fanatical in her belief especially when it comes to killing mind flayers, and devotion to Vlaathica. Which makes them appear cultish much like the followers of the Absolute. Do gith take slaves, are the friendly with any other race (judging by Le's actions and words at this point, plus story when you do next step in her quest they are not friendly, they are quick to strike down other races, they are cultish, fanatics.) So based off Le, and what you've heard it seems more likely that if you go to the creche, they'll simple kill you, and heal Le.


edit response to other posts:

everyone is out to trick you and you to eventually trick you. You ask the other party members to accompany you, because currently you don't know what is out there, you've seen alot of dead intellect devourers and don't know if more are around. Also you are not sure if there are more mind flayers about. So traveling with someone makes sense, asking them to join you makes sense. After all when/if it gets bad all you have to do is outrun them, and the more you have around you the more likely that is to happen. Then there is if your one of the superior races, they are weaker then you pathetic but they may very well make a good slave, or henchman/woman in general. So better to test them, and see their potential.

As for working with goblins, it maybe a temporary thing until you can establish your own dominance over them, usurp their leaders, sway the masses to your cause, etc. The True Souls are not normal, so what can you learn from them before ultimately taking them out of the picture, or dominating them. Then having all their minions as your own, meaning more people to slow enemies down in case things go bad. Or maybe your character is stupid and doesn't mind joining someone smarter then them, specially if they get to kill things, and get rid of the tadpole.

Having four grumpy companions do to actions = sorry my friend they are already grumpy. so whats different?

Lloth sworn = You don't hate anyone but surface elves, and other drow. You are superior to every other creature walking Faerun so why should you bother even hating them? They are simply slaves waiting to be collared, playthings waiting to be played with, brief entertainment to oocupy a small portion of your time, and delight you until you find another one to take their place.

Alot of what I see this is my opinion, and there are good arguements and opinions like gray ghosts, is this. I will be using his to counter, and some others are included. Yet overall this is what I see.

That because your not getting an immedaite satisfaction, or reward it's not a viable option. Yes we can add gray's points to counter. Yet again may imo simply want the rewards, and tadpole removed. Yes greed is supposedly evil. From this I gather that many are

A)looking for short term satisfaction, the quick and easy or

B) Remove my tadpole, give me riches, and treasure.

C) again easy path.

You don't want to aid the goblins because they attack you, your evil kill them, by doing so you prove to their boss your not to be trifled with, and will make a good underling (note your lvl 3 your not even near developed enough in your class to do mighty things) killing goblins no problem. Killing farmers, and unarmed people no problem, taking out certain druids again might be no problem. Yet in the long run your a fly that has it's uses. They know this even if you don't, yet you do have potential, and could eventually become a threat to their power. So you kill goblins (they breed like rabbits so always more) prove yourself to the Bosses, who are now willing to aid you if you aid them.

If the goblins simply let you waltz into their camp not knowing you, not knowing if your a threat, a potential and useful ally, then they would be stupid evil. If the Bosses simply helped you not knowing you, not knowing if your a spy for another enemy, or if you can be any use to them they'd be stupid evil. You as is argued by many, and a reason many are still following the good path are an unknown so aiding you for no reward is stupid evil. Why should they their not good they don't pass to coins to beggars, they may very well steal the beggars coin.

You say well I'm not getting a reward from it, and thats stupid evil. Whats the reward for them helping an unknown, nothing that they know of.

You argue - that evil is greedy self centered, and motivated by personal gain. True in large part I applaude you, but your failing to see that guess what, they evil people in the game are the exact same way.
So by your own logic, and arguements they would be stupid evil to do anything for you. Until you prove to them that your useful, and not just more trash they have goblins for that, and goblins breed far faster then the other races. Your not giving them a reward, unless you do something for them.

So you don't want to be stupid evil. I get that it's boring, and not very exciting. Why the hell should the enemies in the game be stupid evil??

Rant over. note this is a view from rp stand point, and not meant to inflame, debase anyone. Please feel free to prove me wrong, or agree up to you.

On top of that if you actually follow up on Kagha it turns out she's working against the grove on purpose. So the least sympathetic character in that camp is an antagonist if you go with the path of siding with them. Having an "evil" route feels retrograde, if players tend to be unwilling to go down the more ruthless routes in morally grey scenarios you need a REALLY good motivation for taking an evil route. If you make a game without that, with all the information out there about player behaviour, who is to blame for very few people taking that route?

Edit: Also worth noting what the D&D source books tend to say about evil parties. Short version is it is not really made for that.

You are absolutely right, I have nothing to add. The player has no motivation to help the goblins, or not to get rid of the parasite. This option was found by accident, it should not be so.

If the developers want more players to try the "dark side of the force", then they should give the player food for thought, temptation, more information about the cult of the absolute. Why not make a goblin messenger who searches the wreck site and invites the player to the goblin camp? Why not get a more detailed offer from Minthara, whose only character in the goblin camp should have the brains to figure out what's what?

Playing on the evil side should be fun, like Fable's Lost Chapters. And not Fallout 3 where to be bad means to be stupid idiots who kills everything in its path for some unknown reason (and I would really like to join the Enclave faction)

And the evil side should be variable, it's very cool if you can take the side of ANY antagonist. No "absolute enemies" are imposed on us, only freedom of choice

In The Elder Scrolls, you can play as the murderer of the dark brotherhood, be a thief, do bad things, but for some reason the developers decided that it is impossible to play as a necromancer and this guild is closed .. or in Oblivion, you cannot join the mythical dawn and go through an alternative plot. Why are they enemies, maybe I wanted to help them, hey!

Things like that spoil everything, if this is not the case in Baldurs Gate the game deserves a 10 out of 10

Rationalising that you make the default good choices that the game allows you to because of ulterior motives, is a poor substitute for having actual evil choices that are worth it.
I fully agree that the whole Absolute plot-line really needs a lot more promise of reward and exposition for it to make any sort of sense to join up with them. I ended up eradicating the Goblins on my evil play-through because there was next to no incitement to do anything else. I was also sorely disappointed to find that apparently there are no fun things that an evil character can get up to with a Hag, either.

The way i look at it, allying with goblins doesn't even make much sense for an evil char. What does make sense is removing them (or rather the 3 leaders)
Considering that:
a. You embarked on this journey to remove the parasite. That's ..the name of the main quest. It's what you want. It's what your companions want.. if their dialogue is to be believed. Now, the only real 'promise' of a cure comes from Halsin, who was kidnapped by goblins. And to get Halsin, you need the goblins gone. So as an evil character, a pragmatic one, who wants the parasite gone..why would you choose the goblins over Halsin?
b. If the goblin leaders find out that you want the tadpole removed or that YOU killed the mind flayer, they will attack (as will the 2 humans you encounter early on near the grove, if you tell them you were on the ship). They are a threat to you, so why would you want to let them live?
c. You learn that they have tadpoles of their own. If you know what power these tadpoles can offer, wouldn't you technically as an evil char want your competition removed?
d. The goblin leaders offer you nothing, as far as i've noticed. No promise of a cure, no promise of riches or power. Maybe i somehow missed this conversation, but in my game the drow (Minthara?) just went 'oh another true soul, come, sister, let us attack the grove!'. Ya ok, but why? Why would i want to be their underling, and potentially be paid in potatoes, if removing them is so much easier?

If there was a way to manipulate the cult leaders, if you could take over this branch & end up with an army of goblins to command AND SO make your path forward basically easier, i'd understand the appeal. But as it is rn, killing them is the only logical option.

All of this. If you do end up getting to Minthara and not already started butchering them, she doesn't offer anything. Hell the only way I knew allying with her is a thing bc I saw on the internet you can. How is a person who isn't looking supposed to know? You don't. The game doesn't tell you in anyway, instead you're made to fight them with your companions and other npcs you meet telling you how evil they are. The only way I didn't get in a fight is I played drow and the gatekeeper was like "drow coming through let em go". No dialogue persuasion or anything. I was gearing up for a fight.

But in the end I got nothing. A companion left me (rightfully so, I like this part) but in the end I got nothing at all. No power, no loot from the drow, and she just peaces out. I guess I became a homicidal maniac for the drow booty.

To be fair, if this was the full game it might be perfectly reasonable to just say "fuck this" and head for the creché so just because it doesn't make sense in EA doesn't mean it couldn't make sense in the larger scope of the finished game



I snuck into the goblin camp and kinda just got tolerated there (I guess they take all kinds though I'm pretty sure I was the only Dwarf there. Which was commented on once or twice which was a nice touch), and when I met up with Minthara she immediately recognizes me as a True Soul. I can then *volunteer* to go torture a guy to find out where the Grove is, or just offer to tell her and then get told to go kill them. No promises of anything at all so to me it seemed 100% "evil for the sake it". Figured the loot would be better in Goblin camp so I killed them all, not just the men but the women and children too (yeah, felt a bit bad about murdering those Goblin kids to be honest) and the loot was definitely worth it