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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
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Here we go again, the D&D mob going at it again, sucking all the FUN out of the game with their demands to make it like PnP 5e. For D&Desk simulation just go play Pathfinder: Kingmaker. Not gonna happen. So get used to it.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
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Aight, lets start with action economy...
I guess this boils down to subjective interpretation. Despite these changes I'd say it's really recognisable that the system is 5e based, as opposed to 3.5 or a non D&D system. Many of the changes I expect are a consequence of EA like certain spells being missing, I'd be surprised if stuff like that and class abilities weren't worked in and polished over time.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
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Aight, lets start with action economy...
I guess this boils down to subjective interpretation. Despite these changes I'd say it's really recognisable that the system is 5e based, as opposed to 3.5 or a non D&D system. Many of the changes I expect are a consequence of EA like certain spells being missing, I'd be surprised if stuff like that and class abilities weren't worked in and polished over time. I agree with that sentiment, however as game designer myself and seeing their timeline, I highly doubt that they will ever change some of the core mechanic changes they have already made, considering the time and effort that would take, plus you know, finishing the game. At this point I am almost confident all these changes are by design and not by oversight or lack of time, but thats just me.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
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Some of them I'm sure are a matter of design. Things like environmental damage and replacing cover with elevation seem to be attempts to give tools for creative play, which is going to be harder to program in a game than at the table. Things like spell lists and class abilities I'd be surprised if they didn't change and expand.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
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[quote=0Muttley0]
It is set in and around the city of Baldur's Gate. That is all that is needed to make it a Baldur's Gate game. That's YOUR point of view, because that's what define BG to YOU. This is as stupid as saying BG3 doesn't look DoS at all because the rules are not the same. No its not saying BG3 doesn't look like DoS at all. Thats you putting words in my mouth and is you saying I have said something I clearly haven't. This is akin to outright lying on your part, and it also a totally irrational thing to infer. Fact: The game is set in and around the city of Baldur's Gate.This makes it a Baldur's Gate game. It isn't opinion at all on any level whatsover. There is no valid argument to say it is not a Baldur's Gate game. Sure it might not be the Baldur's Gate game a lot of people want, but it is a Baldur's Gate game nonetheless. Anyone trying to rationale that it isn't a Baldur's Gate game, no matter what 'evidence' they provide is like trying to prove the earth is flat. All the details like game engine, rulesets,UI, gameplay etc are 100% redundant. The game is set in and around the city of Baldur's Gate. That by definition makes it a Bauldur's Gate game. You know it, I know it, and everyone else knows it.. Please, give me such unstoppable arguments to proove BG2 is not a BG game because it's arround Athkatla and not BG..... And please try to find at least a single personn that agree with your statement^^ Learn to admit, and accept you are wrong(and maybe re-evaluate your life too if this is your mindset). things like that make you looks like a selfish and capricious child But we aren't talking about Baldur's Gate 2. Why the deflection? [/quote] Oh men seriously... I'm done with you because you are totally inconsistent.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
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Some of them I'm sure are a matter of design. Things like environmental damage and replacing cover with elevation seem to be attempts to give tools for creative play, which is going to be harder to program in a game than at the table. Things like spell lists and class abilities I'd be surprised if they didn't change and expand. Hells you might be right, but I seriously doubt its going to be anywhere what I would consider a faithful adaption of 5e, but its possible thats just me.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
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I agree that changes need to be made to adapt 5e to a videogame, but lots of the changes don't really seem that necessary. Firebolt doing D6? Staves and spears no longer versatile? Dual wielding adding the modifier to damage? Thats exactly what the feat does in 5e, it allows you to add the modifier to your off hand weapon................
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
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After playing for a bit I think that overall the combat will be less varied if 5e rules are enforced however right now we're in this weird place where some DOS combat is preserved while DnD rules are bent to accomodate. Mostly it has to do with barrels and surfaces. What is a big part of tactical combat in Divinity really has no place in Baldur's Gate. DnD combat doesn't rely around a rogue sneaking around and stacking 5 barrels of explosives around all enemies. It's a neat trick for sure, but I feel that it's gimmicky and doesn't feel like DnD.
Early game encounters in DnD are mostly swings and misses. They are not very exciting. But that doesn't mean that it should be replaced by a system of weird weapon skills and magic scrolls to spice it up. The progression to later levels reflects the character curve from simple combattants to proficient warriors to demigods all by itself. So keep the shoving, jumping (although not as a disengage bonus action) and other cool tricks but combat needs to be designed around DnD ruleset. That means a bit simpler early level combats but more "realism" which is inherent to DnD - loot is scarce but powerful, same for spells, enemies don't all have bombs and scroll to use etc.
I see the problem Larian has with early combat but right now it feels like reusing stuff from Divinity instead of embracing DnD to solve the problem instead of fully embracing the ruleset.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
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DnD combat doesn't rely around a rogue sneaking around and stacking 5 barrels of explosives around all enemies. It's a neat trick for sure, but I feel that it's gimmicky and doesn't feel like DnD. This totally feels like D&D to me. Not in the specifics but players trying really intricate tricks to solve problems is a big part of play. The environmental stuff IMO is there to try and capture some of that tabletop creativity. Certainly could do with some tweaks and changes throughout EA but I am sure that if as a DM I put an explosive barrel in a game the party would start collecting all they could to set up exactly this kind of trick.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
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I agree that changes need to be made to adapt 5e to a videogame, but lots of the changes don't really seem that necessary. Firebolt doing D6? Staves and spears no longer versatile? Dual wielding adding the modifier to damage? Thats exactly what the feat does in 5e, it allows you to add the modifier to your off hand weapon................ Correction, thats what the Fighting Style does.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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DnD combat doesn't rely around a rogue sneaking around and stacking 5 barrels of explosives around all enemies. It's a neat trick for sure, but I feel that it's gimmicky and doesn't feel like DnD.
You don't need to do that to win encounters, neither in DOS nor in BG3. But you can if you want to. In terms of environmental damage, I like it, particularly fire. It is present in older editions of DnD (at least 4e) and I believe Pathfinder? I am really glad it is not in 5e because keeping track of it is a pain, but in BG3 the game does it for me, so that is great in my book.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
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I'm having a hard time understanding these complaints. BG3 is D&D 5th edition and it plays exactly like a 5E tabletop session. The gameplay is wonderful in that regard. I know many are comparing it to DOS, but have you considered that DOS might've been inspired by D&D and not the other way around? I think the main reason they can create BG3 right now is because they've already set the foundation for it with their DOS games. They don't have to invent all of the game mechanics and instead they can focus on improving graphics, better music and story and adding in those lovely cutscenes. BG1 and BG2, i believe, were using the 2nd edition or 3.5 edition of D&D, so it makes sense for them to be different gameplay-wise.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
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I'm having a hard time understanding these complaints. BG3 is D&D 5th edition and it plays exactly like a 5E tabletop session. The gameplay is wonderful in that regard. I know many are comparing it to DOS, but have you considered that DOS might've been inspired by D&D and not the other way around? I think the main reason they can create BG3 right now is because they've already set the foundation for it with their DOS games. They don't have to invent all of the game mechanics and instead they can focus on improving graphics, better music and story and adding in those lovely cutscenes. BG1 and BG2, i believe, were using the 2nd edition or 3.5 edition of D&D, so it makes sense for them to be different gameplay-wise.
You posted this exact same post, letter for letter on the last page. Don't just copy and paste your same comment repeatedly.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
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I'm having a hard time understanding these complaints. BG3 is D&D 5th edition and it plays exactly like a 5E tabletop session. The gameplay is wonderful in that regard.
I'm pretty sure in my weekly TT sessions, players don't jump around like kangaroos everytime they enter combat, don't spam magic scrolls like they've stored all of Waterdeeps library in their bag of holding, I can tell right off the bat the difference between my rogue and my warrior or my cleric and wizard players, and they definitely don't have to deal with huge amount of over-the-top surfaces bypassing the games basic mechanics (AC or saving throws). And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one DMing like that, given how any D&D stream available out there feels like any of my TT sessions for the past 20 years. I'd advise players saying BG3 plays like D&D5 to check some of them out. So, no, BG3 doesn't play exactly like a 5E tabletop session. It actually plays very differently. It plays like Divinity though.
Last edited by Temperance; 14/10/20 04:11 PM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
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Funny when people say <amazing game!> <just wow, cant get enough> with no detail whatsoever on why they like it, no one criticizes. But when someone just give they short opinion on why they disliked it , then everyone goes bananas. So much this. Now I have a closer understanding on why many studios seems to be so "stubborn" despite a lot of critics here and there. Their main medias are "censored" by a majority of huge fans that won't be disapointed no matter what but are extremely hostile to different opinions.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
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I'm having a hard time understanding these complaints. BG3 is D&D 5th edition and it plays exactly like a 5E tabletop session. The gameplay is wonderful in that regard. I know many are comparing it to DOS, but have you considered that DOS might've been inspired by D&D and not the other way around? I think the main reason they can create BG3 right now is because they've already set the foundation for it with their DOS games. They don't have to invent all of the game mechanics and instead they can focus on improving graphics, better music and story and adding in those lovely cutscenes. BG1 and BG2, i believe, were using the 2nd edition or 3.5 edition of D&D, so it makes sense for them to be different gameplay-wise.
You posted this exact same post, letter for letter on the last page. Don't just copy and paste your same comment repeatedly. I thought that post was familar... .
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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Its hard to even recognize the relation to 5e at this point What about it makes you think this? The classes, the character sheet, the skill checks, the abilities, the action economy, the spells etc are all in pretty close alignment to 5e. There are some changes because there was going to have to be in adapting a tabletop to a video game where you can't program in DM judgement or the full scope of player creativity. I wouldn't say they're so great as to make the game unrecognisable. Some classes clearly need more pass over (like the rogue), jump and disengage should be separated out, the DC calculation is a bit confusing but adds up to the same thing. Other than that the only significant changes are with the combat where they've replaced the idea of 3/4 and half cover with elevation, and added environmental effects presumably in an effort to give tools for players to be creative. Sir, you are being far too rational and concise for this discussion. I'm gonna have to ask you to take your seat.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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OP, what exactly should be made for it to be a Baldur's Gate 3? Not the OP, but I think I can field this one: 1. Add Imoen to the game. Only she hasn't aged at all (obviously). And this time we can romance her cuz she's not our sister! BOOM, we call that a Character Arc. 2. Bring back Jon Irenicus. Only now he's a companion. Because remember that time when Sarevok was like, the big evil boss, but then in the next game he was like, in our party for some reason? Yeah, we gotta do that again for sure. 3. Honestly you only need #1 and #2, but if you gotta go for a trifecta, I guess . . . add in more easter eggs and pop culture references that don't fit with the tone of the narrative?
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
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I'm having a hard time understanding these complaints. BG3 is D&D 5th edition and it plays exactly like a 5E tabletop session. The gameplay is wonderful in that regard.
I'm pretty sure in my weekly TT sessions, players don't jump around like kangaroos everytime they enter combat, don't spam magic scrolls like they've stored all of Waterdeeps library in their bag of holding, I can tell right off the bat the difference between my rogue and my warrior or my cleric and wizard players, and they definitely don't have to deal with huge amount of over-the-top surfaces bypassing the games basic mechanics (AC or saving throws). And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one DMing like that, given how any D&D stream available out there feels like any of my TT sessions for the past 20 years. I'd advise players saying BG3 plays like D&D5 to check some of them out. So, no, BG3 doesn't play exactly like a 5E tabletop session. It actually plays very differently. It plays like Divinity though. Totally agree. I am Pathfinder kingsmaker, and it changes a lot the gameplay. Ranged combat is much more important, elevetion is now crucial, surface combat is key now. Its not to make some tweaks to a TT game, which i totally agree with. If you want to change some stats, give additional power, or even modify 5E to give more feats, stats, or power to players, I would be ok with that. At the end of the day there are tweaks, that change the game but does not change the playstyle. but now the combat is radically different.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
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There's isn't quite the same level of Splatoon covered floors like in DOS yet. Firebolt does ignite a flammable object in DnD and if they're covered in grease, it makes sense there would be an explosion. Now a stone floor, that shouldn't turn into a fire surface. Larian should take advantage of the game world, to flavor up game mechanics or make the world more alive where they can. Homebrew rules are a thing and can help make a game more fun. In DnD, if a player used ray of frost on wet ground a good DM would make the enemy do an acrobatics check. That's part of the imagination and creative problem solving of DnD. Not everything has to be in the 5e rulebook. Fire dipping is weird though
A darker aesthetic and lighting could help with the Baldur's Gate feel
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