Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Part of the problem is my expectations.

Says the guy writing two paragraphs explaining to a video game studio backed by the creators of DnD how to make a DnD video game.

Folks keep tossing about the term 'D&D Experience' like it is a set of rules engraved in two tablets with ten commandments. My D & D experience is 1.0 or 2.0...and I could claim everything since is a travesty. With 500 players you will find 500 different definitions of a 'd & d experience' . For me, I see Volo, I see Shar v Selune, I see Harpers, I see Elturil and Baldurs Gate - all elements of FR and D &D. I see a set of rules, in this case 5e, modified by 'house rules' where the computer simply cannot substitute 100% for a live DM. Are there balance issues? Sure, but that's what EA and beta testing exist for - balancing things out. Are there placeholders for gear, cut scenes, systems (crafting)/ Sure, but those will eventually be inserted into the game. Are there missing spells and skills? Again, certainly, but it makes sense to test, balance and debug these in smaller bunches, rather than all at once. Mechanics change - BG1/2 and IWD1 were 2.0, IWD2 was 3.0, NWN 3.5 - now we get 5e. Each system had positive and negative characteristics. Are there fewer uses and references to character class, race, background, skills and such than we might prefer/ Yes again, but more of each can be added incrementally as development goes forward. Even the planned release in one year is a target - it might be 11 months or it might be 14.

Far as I am concerned, if the game evinces the history, immersion, atmosphere and mindset of FR, and fairly well approximates the mechanics/gameplay of D&D when it is finished, it will be considered a success. There are arguments both for and against things like cantrips/spells impacting the environment - but it in end it is not simply a DOS2 thing - plenty of times playing in D&D groups I've taken advantage of the environment - if I could drop a lightning bolt on someone standing in a river, I sure as hell would, and would argue to the DM that additional damage should be allowed. These are balance issues - not a reason to indict an entire mechanic.

If you are not willing to give Larian a chance to iron out such issues, you shouldn't waste your time and theirs on EA. Wait for a final product and decide them if you want to play it.

For me the problem is expectations, for most in this thread that's been about the expectation of the game using a more accurate implementation of D&D5E rules, but that's not a concern for me. My expectations dictate that we should be getting a Baldur's Gate game, not a 5E game. I would rather Larian hacked the 5E ruleset to pieces and came up with something more akin to a 5E interpretation of iconic gameplay and mechanics present in BG1 and 2, ideally we would have a kensai subclass for fighter and a wild mage subclass for wizard, etc and maybe Larian could even fix some of the rules travesties (subjective) and balance issues in 5E (not to suggest it is terribly balanced). When I hear the title Baldur's Gate 3, I hear "baldur's Gate sequel" but what we're getting literally does not fit the definition of what a sequel is. Different ruleset, core gameplay completely changed and a story that cannot be a continuation without retconning official 5e lore.

Plenty of people have expectations of a faithful 5E game, even though they've probably homebrewed a rule or two repeatedly themselves, when homebrew rules should have been the expectation from the get go given that it is a different kind of experience purely by nature of being a computer game instead of pen and paper. No D&D computer game has done an accurate translation of the ruleset and to have expected such should have been obviously unthinkable. Every medium change requires a property be adapted to the new medium and everyone has things they would like to change in D&D.

Expectations are a problem, but the expectations talked about in this thread aren't it.

No, because this is literally my favorite game series of all time. They decided they wanted to make a sequel. Which precludes any other sequel from being made by a different company if Larian screws it up.

Taking a look at the forums, people aren't that upset over the story, history, and atmosphere being displayed in the current game, Larian's inability to start a game not on a beach aside.

DoS also approximated the mechanics/gameplay of D&D. It's turn based, you have a limited set of stuff you can do, it's got spells, etc.

This wasn't advertised, discussed, nor promoted as a 'general role playing game'. Larian decided to take on the Baldur's Gate title. Which means they get to reap all of the benefits (a massive baked in amount of exposure and dedicated community who will buy the product), but they also shoulder the burden now of not just making the game they clearly wanted to make, which is DoS 3: D&D DLC.

These aren't house rule modifications. They are wholesale changes to the point where if you wrote down the rules of the game, you wouldn't recognize it as 5e besides some loosely named similar features. And Larian has the benefit of not even having to translate the rules to RTwP, making their job in terms of rules implementation an even easier task than Black Isle had to undertake.

I suppose the OP is right, I had expectations that the third game in a series would try to pay homage to the spirit of the first two games, rather than just being a studio produced mod of DoS.

They may not be trying to make BG3 but you can be sure it feels like they are trying to make D:OS3 instead which is also not a good thing for me. At least at this stage of the EA, it feels like that. Also i believe a lot of you should just stop trying to speak for them because it doesn't really help this case. I understand you are hardcore Divinity Fanboys and all but you should just let Larian make their own statements on the matters.

At times we have a massive/unrealistic expectation we've cooked up in our heads. So it won't matter how good the game is or isn't it's not going to compare with our expectations. Especially not when it comes out in EA, expecting it to be true to everything that was BG 1 & 2 is unrealistic because it's not the same devs doing it. Even the devs that did it back when BG first came out would do it different because they learned things in that 20 year time span, tech changed, company changed, people got hired and fired, etc. This is an unreal expectation, to keep holding onto.

Expecting it to be 85% or more 5e rule is still unrealistic because it's in EA and it's not done by WoTC, Larian has their own way of doing things, thats unique to them.

Expecting there to be nothing in it like DoS is also unrealistic because Larian has again their own way of doing things, thats unique to them. Is all the barrels annoying, all the surface things annoying, jumping, shoving etc annoying or game breaking (depends on who you ask) imo yes.

Expecting those things like shove, jumping, barrels, etc to not be in the game is again unrealistic. It's Larian it's their mindset, they like those things. It's like me expecting my DM to be able to pronounce every name, and everything in the game perfectly, it's unrealistic because he honestly can't, he tries, he just can't. And everyone finds it humerous when a wolf becomes a woof.

Should we lower our standards and expectations to 0 no, but we need to find that middle ground on which to stand. Then work from there.

In my view alot of the shove, barrel, surface, yada, yada, yoooodaaaaa makes some sense in the game. Larian placed it there and many other things to test. In my experience though limited it is easier to adjust code, then completely rewrite code, or write new code. My expectations for the future a month or two down the road is this. To see Larian slowly removing things, adjusting things, tweaking things. To remove things that are just to far gone for a brief time, then after a while of in housing placing it back in for us to test.

Going into an EA by a completely new dev on a game we love and expecting it to be that game, be it 100% 5e rules, or another BG game is sheer stupidity on our part. Now we know how foolish we were, how our expectations were, it's time to find the middle ground. A base with which to work from and slowly raise our expectations, both in a realistic albiet slow way, to keep ourselves in check, and ease off some of the massive pressure on Larian, and our Blood pressures.

lets back off the idoicy that is D&D DoS, the 100% 5e, the BG 1&2 and put our expectations to a realistic level.


Warning: The following is not sugar coated at all, is my op, nor is it meant to be cute and fluffy. It is straight talk so put on your big boy pants if your going to read it.

If Larian wanted to make DoS 3 they would be making it period end of discussion, if you feel other wise again your a moron who's not using the one thing that seperates us from animals. A working thinking rational brain. DoS series has great sales, has a great following, that probably rivals BG 1 & 2 currently. Plus BG players are getting old, some have already died. Larian wanted to make another BG, WoTC agreed with what their pitch was and so BG3 began to form. On the other side if they wanted to make DoS 3 they wouldn't of pitched shit to WoTC, and made DoS without having to jump through WoTC hoops. I know this won't change minds of the DoS fools, cause you can't fix stupid, and thats what it is is stupid.

This feels like a relationship advice thread

In a way it is lol. it's the relationship between consumer and Larian

I dunno..... I can pretty easily recognise what they've done as 5E. None of the changes are that sweeping and large that it would make the system unrecognisable and one of the more core changes I see people complaining about is something I think makes much more sense than the PnP rules and just feels better in a cRPG than the PnP system would.... I just wish I'd been able to play this game without ever seeing that title, my expectations of a BG game make it miss the mark pretty hard in some ways that I'm not convinced I'll ever be able to really look past. I've actually just quit to desktop a few times because I saw or was reminded of something that felt so anti-BG that it just killed my desire to play and its a shame because if it wasn't for those moments I would be so easily pleased by what Larian has done so far and the potential the game has.

I'm tending to want to tell a lot of folks here to be a bit more Zen and come in with a child's mind that just accepts and doesn't make judgments/lay on expectations.



I'd like to hear more about what you liked/what you miss.

I never played any of the BG series - my sweetie did - so I'd like to hear what stayed with you.

The problem is not expectations of players that expect a DnD experience the whole problem is that some takes the DnD setting and twists, warps and bastardises it to suite his own interest while luring in people under false premises.
The technology is there, it was there since the 80´s to make the most and best DnD game there is no excuse of its technically not possible, programming and coding is no dark magic anymore that only a few can do and unterstand.
The only thing is the ego of the people making the decisions.

Face it, we are here because of promises of DnD 5e Baldus Gate not because of any other reason.
I do not care for any other product that this company makes or did make in past all care for all I came for is BG3.





this so much this.

I have talked to "game designers" and they are not right in there upper parts at all. They tend to have god complex and do not unterstand they create a product and the people willing to give money, or us idiots in this case that payed already and where trickt in to buying it, are asking for something they(the dev or designers) dont want, <keep that in mind, not "cant not create", they can!!! You have to beat that in there heads by force that they are not payed for there interpretation not for there "personal wants" or "needs" but for what the customer wants even if its against what they want to have.

Falls advertisement, whats on the box has to be in the box and so forth comes to mind here.
If you say and you did in the past that:
5e rules
DnD
Baldurs Gate
are in the product, then you better make sure its in the game or all hell brakes loose.

I guess we are playing different games then, lol.

They aren't making changes so much as integrating what they've already done with DOS games into DOS3..I mean BG3 in my opinion at least. They haven't had the time to truly develop an original title apart from their existing assets.