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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2020
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Calling them Sun Elves would be kinda wrong, though. In Faerun 5e (according to the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide at least), High Elf race both represent Moon and Sun Elves.
Under the term Seldarine Drow, I think Larian means drows who follow the Dark Maiden, Eilistraee and wish to be accepted by the Seldarine again (as the drows were spiritually cut off from the Seldarine, in a similar but not the same way as Irenicus was, back during the Crown Wars).
I for one am really glad for the distinction between Lolth-worshipping and renegade Drows because it gives deeper 'backstory' for the custom made Drow characters. Now the game will know instantly what kind of drow you want to play as.
Last edited by spacehamster95; 03/10/20 01:15 PM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: May 2019
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If for no other reason than roleplaying, I wish they would have kept the distinction between sun and moon elves rather than lumping them together as "high" elves.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Jun 2019
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Indeed, Moon Elf and Sun Elf should be separate subraces. And if they can put in made up subraces like "Seldarine Drow", then making those two subraces separate shouldn't be a problem
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2020
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Yeah but what is the point of making a separate Sun and Moon elf subrace other than cosmetics?
The Player Handbook does not separate them (no special subrace feature for either Sun or Moon elf).
In terms of roleplaying, it is a very minor distinction (not like the difference between a drow who follows Lolth and a drow who tries to redeem his/her race).
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Jun 2019
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They have been distinct subraces since 1st edition D&D Forgotten Realms Campaign Set. And there are differences between the two subraces are significant within the Forgotten Realms setting.
In 3rd edition there were mechanical differences between the two (moon elves got +2 DEX, -2 CON, and sun elves got +2 INT, -2 CON)
The main differences between the two subraces are that the moon elves are the most common of the elves, the subrace most often found in human cities, as they posses a natural wanderlust and perhaps the most open-minded tendencies of the elven subraces. Whereas the sun elves are generally staunch traditionalists who cling strongly to the memory of their prestigious past (many of the great elven empires and nations of ages past were lead by sun elves). They often think of themselves as the custodians of elven culture and of the elven people in general, and consequently may sometimes come across as elitist or domineering towards the other elven subraces. Sun elves are also one of the elven subraces that are most rarely encountered in Faerun compared to moon elves and wood elves, as they generally dwell in elven lands like Evermeet or Evereska, or in cities with a particularly large elven population like Silverymoon.
I think, paying attention to details like this is important since this is Larian Studios' first dip into the Forgotten Realms universe, and ideally I would like them to depict it as faithfully as BioWare and Obsidian did
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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I would also like to see moon elves.
My guess is that WotC in not making a distinction was trying to get away from some of the things they introduced in 3.5 -- sun elf supremacist organizations and the like which got a bit too close to real world politics for my taste. (and did so in a problematic way)
But the solution isn't to eliminate the distinction but avoid making links to real world politics imo.
Last edited by KillerRabbit; 04/10/20 12:44 AM.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2020
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Yeah but this is not on Larian. Wizards of the Coast was the one who kinda walked back on the distinction btw sun and moon elves in 5th edition. Larian just follows the lead.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2019
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Looks all great. Though I wish High Elves would be called Sun Elves instead, just like Gold Dwarves and Shield Dwarves have now gotten their proper Faerunian names (whom were referred to as Hill Dwarves & Mountain Dwarves respectively in the former builds of BG3).
And also as a lifelong FR fan, I've never heard of "Seldarine Drow". What is that? Are they supposed to represent the redeemed Dark Elves? Why not just call them that instead?
I don't like the name "Lolth-Sworn Drow" either, since it kind of assumes all evil drow worship Lolth, when the second and third most worshipped Dark Seldarine gods are Vhaeraun and Ghaundaur. Ilythiiri Drow would be a better title to encompass the archetypical evil drow whom still bear Wendonai's taint. This, High Elves should be split into Sun, Moon, and Stars Elves.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2019
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Yeah but this is not on Larian. Wizards of the Coast was the one who kinda walked back on the distinction btw sun and moon elves in 5th edition. Larian just follows the lead. Only mechanically, even the PHB mentions Sun and Moon elves under high elves, and the SCAG mentions Star Elves. This isn't a problem in PNP where the dm can use the proper term, but it a problem in BG3. Perhaps the TCoE will have a solution for this, after all I suspect it's where the idea for Lolth-Sworn Drow vs Seldarine Drow Arised.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2019
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Looks all great. Though I wish High Elves would be called Sun Elves instead, just like Gold Dwarves and Shield Dwarves have now gotten their proper Faerunian names (whom were referred to as Hill Dwarves & Mountain Dwarves respectively in the former builds of BG3).
And also as a lifelong FR fan, I've never heard of "Seldarine Drow". What is that? Are they supposed to represent the redeemed Dark Elves? Why not just call them that instead?
I don't like the name "Lolth-Sworn Drow" either, since it kind of assumes all evil drow worship Lolth, when the second and third most worshipped Dark Seldarine gods are Vhaeraun and Ghaundaur. Ilythiiri Drow would be a better title to encompass the archetypical evil drow whom still bear Wendonai's taint. My hypothesis is that Lolth-Sworn are simply the Drow tainted by Lolth and her minions, and Seldarine Drow are the Drow that got cleansed by Elven High magic, neither forced you into a particular religion. I agree with you that Ilythiiri Drow sound better and will cause less confusion then Lolth-Sworn Drow and I would push to share that on other forums, reddit, amd feed back to Larian.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2019
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I'm going to play a Zariel Tiefling Acolyte Ranger/Beast Tamer or Urban Tracker/Santified Stalker/Beastmaster with the feat Ritual Caster: Wizard or Cleric. I want see both how they did fixing the Ranger, and if being a Tiefling of Zariel makes a difference to the plot compared to other Tieflings given what Zariel did to the Swordcoast.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2019
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There are many more subraces than I expected for the EA. And Damn! they look good. And there are more races coming (some of which have subraces).
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member
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member
Joined: Feb 2020
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I am really disappointed that it looks like BG3 is classifying Drow as its own race when it should be a subrace of Elf.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: May 2019
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Yeah but this is not on Larian. Wizards of the Coast was the one who kinda walked back on the distinction btw sun and moon elves in 5th edition. Larian just follows the lead. Only mechanically, even the PHB mentions Sun and Moon elves under high elves, and the SCAG mentions Star Elves. This isn't a problem in PNP where the dm can use the proper term, but it a problem in BG3. Perhaps the TCoE will have a solution for this, after all I suspect it's where the idea for Lolth-Sworn Drow vs Seldarine Drow Arised. Yes this is exactly how i see it as well. It doesn't really matter if mechanically they are all the same. This is a role-playing game, and game mechanics is secondary to and meant to facilitate role-playing. So within the "high elf" subrace they should include the sun, moon, and star elf distinctions at least for role-playing purposes. As for the drow, again I agree there are some meaningful differences from an RP standpoint even if not mechanically among the drow.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jan 2018
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I am really disappointed that it looks like BG3 is classifying Drow as its own race when it should be a subrace of Elf. Im not sure why that is the sort of thing that would really disappoint you. That’s kind of odd. The reason might be that NPCs react to the player based on their race, not their sub-race. Drow and Half-Drow will obviously be treated very differently from surface Elves, requiring that they be made a unique race.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Sep 2017
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This is a videogame, in character creation elves and drows does not look like the same so it´s logical that they will separate them so you can customize their appearance In your own way. The differences in their features, background and looks makes them good candidates to be in a different category.
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member
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member
Joined: Feb 2020
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Yeah, the elves are looking pretty human unfortunately, none of the preset faces shown seem to have the characteristic elven features shown in official artwork and manual descriptions -angular features, high cheekbones, catlike slanted eyes, heart-shape face, etc-. They even seem to share the same body with human characters as opposed to being more slender and graceful. I remember making a topic back then because I feared just this when I saw Astarion's design.
Even worse than that is the absense of the Seldarine from the deity list, but I guess I understand FR has just too many deities to include all of them, it might be too ambitious. It couldn't have hurt to include just a few of each race though.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2019
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Yeah, the elves are looking pretty human unfortunately, none of the preset faces shown seem to have the characteristic elven features shown in official artwork and manual descriptions -angular features, high cheekbones, catlike slanted eyes, heart-shape face, etc-. They even seem to share the same body with human characters as opposed to being more slender and graceful. I remember making a topic back then because I feared just this when I saw Astarion's design.
Even worse than that is the absense of the Seldarine from the deity list, but I guess I understand FR has just too many deities to include all of them, it might be too ambitious. It couldn't have hurt to include just a few of each race though. We don't have a full deity list for EA, do we? I imagine they will add to it.
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member
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member
Joined: Feb 2020
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We don't have a full deity list for EA, do we? I imagine they will add to it.
Update: I was too mouthy! There are a few non human deities, which I am happy for! I'm also very happy with the hairstyles, I don't know or care much about male hairstyles to be honest, but females do get quite a few cool hairstyles. Very disappointed with the faces though. I know beauty is subjective but damn.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
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We don't have a full deity list for EA, do we? I imagine they will add to it.
Update: I was too mouthy! There are a few non human deities, which I am happy for! I'm also very happy with the hairstyles, I don't know or care much about male hairstyles to be honest, but females do get quite a few cool hairstyles. Very disappointed with the faces though. I know beauty is subjective but damn. Guy on the right looks like he could bite the roof off of a truck.
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