I see the points being made. It is usually done with you get the DC number and then the player adds his/her modifiers for her character to beat that DC. However, it isn't unheard of where if the DM/GM actually has all your character's skills, saves, and bonuses to simply add or subtract those numbers off the DC first so you simply just make the roll with the die or dice you are rolling with. I think it is merely just a matter of preference really. Larian just simply likes to take the math out of it for you to just so you either get it on a d20 roll or not. I am really not bias either way. It is different from what I am used to, but I see why they have done it the way they have. Both ways are groovy for me. smile