Originally Posted by endolex
Originally Posted by Argonaut

No, I am explaining to you how the system works and how it is used to simulate reality with it's own rules.


It's your interpretation of how the system works, not some objective truth. You call the DnD ruleset a 'reality simulator', which is not how I view it at all. It's a game system, designed to govern + resolve uncertainty in an interactive narrative, and by no means intended as a physically + mathematically accurate modeling of an entire fictional world. If you go at it that way, you should just as well start asking why NPCs don't have full character sheets and are not subject to the same rules regarding actions, spells, etc. - what's the (meta)physical in-world explanation that distinguishes player characters from monsters and NPCs, what makes them essentially different?

Congratulations you took an incredibly roundabout word salad way of describing a reality simulator. Reality simulator doesn't mean our reality FYI. NPCs do not have full character sheet because they are negligible and the ones that aren't do have full character sheets. What makes them different are their races, culture and biology. I don't think you understand how pen and paper systems work.

Originally Posted by endolex
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IF you would like to actually disprove me then explain how a level 1 fighter and lvl 5 fighter with the same backstory can lead to the level 1 fighter having superior tangible skills. experience and proficiency


You keep comparing character levels, missing my point entirely that it's easily possible to restrict actions from a gameplay point of view, without having to restrict the character's background based on that. Yes, of course that requires somewhat mature players that don't impulsively need to invent "chosen one" backstories with countless great and universe-saving deeds in their pocket (although even that could be managed, provided player, party and DM can agree on how to approach it).
Backstories are *always* subject to DM scrutiny, so I don't even see the risk here that you seem to be seeing. And countless games do this: you start out "weak" in game terms, but your background says otherwise, it's just more fun to progress and 'earn' abilities by what you did in-game, which should however not restrict who your character is as a person entering the adventure, previous life and possible trauma all included without boosting them all the way to Lv 8-12 because of it.

Again you are taking a very roundabout way to tell me I am wrong while then describing exactly what I said. You also fail to demonstrate your point with tangible evidence or a concrete example. It's entirely possible to restrict actions from a gameplay point of view? Yes. Levels are part of gameplay. Experience is a part of gameplay.

Originally Posted by endolex
[There's simply no reason, neither in the PHB nor in any other objective fashion to decide "we're playing Lv1 characters, so your characters can't be older than xyz years". And yes, bringing adolescence into it logically follows that, because if you're arguing a character that is Lv1 can't have experienced anything useful from a narrative point of view, they have to be very young (or very sheltered) in most cases.

This is a point that exists in your head and a leap you are making on your own. I didn't say you don't have skills I said that your skills are not noteworthy if you are low level and you cannot write this into your backstory as this would be metagaming and not fun. I am 30 years old and a father of two children and work in a highly demanding field. Do not try to diminish my person because your argument is falling flat.

Think of it this way. Have you never met someone in middle age that works a run of the mill job and has no noteworthy skills despite many years of life experience, a veritable "average-joe".

Originally Posted by endolex
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Do you simply not understand that the experiences you have are reflected by your level directly?

I understand your sentiment, but I don't agree that this reflection can ever be as accurate as you obviouly would like it to be, nor that such accuracy should even be attempted. Because again, it's not a simulator (to me). Around a game table, yes, there needs to be consensus about what is believable - fortunately I've been in enough rounds with what obviously would be anathema to you: a party with characters ranging from 16-year-old "just starting out" noobs to grizzled 40-ish mercenary veterans, with quite different ages and experiences, but decidedly not reflected in-game by vastly different character levels - because that would feel much more "wrong" to us (not to mention terribly difficult to balance encounters against). It's perfectly manageable when you're playing with somewhat mature players, and I wholeheartedly recommend it.

simulation
/sɪmjuːˈleɪʃ(ə)n/
Learn to pronounce
noun
imitation of a situation or process.
"simulation of blood flowing through arteries and veins"
the action of pretending; deception.
"clever simulation that's good enough to trick you"
the production of a computer model of something, especially for the purpose of study.
"the method was tested by computer simulation"

Please. You agreeing with something or not does not alter reality. I don't consider that anathema at all as long as they didn't try to pass their low level characters off as having artisan level combat, crafting or social skills. Again, you are creating a problem in your own head and arguing against it as if it was my point. I am going to spell it out for you.

Low level + Backstory = Used to scale your actual tangible power and skillset. It does not prevent you from having diverse skills or experiences but you cannot be a level 1 character that is a veteran of many wars and a champion of the army as a level one because that is not how the system works. In your backstory you are this great epic warrior but in actual combat you are barely more competent than a farmer. This is not a matter of your perception or opinion it is an objective fact and how the system balance was created. This does not affect your age either. It directly affects the numerical values of your skills.

Originally Posted by Sadurian
My latest D&D 5e character is a wizened old crone. Yep, she was a wizened old crone at Level 1 as well. The party includes a teenage halfling urchin who is the same level as me, as well as several PCs whose ages are not given or remarked upon. We all have different backstories; I like creating backstories so mine are usually quite detailed and interesting (at least, to me).

And does your lvl 1 wizened old crone have access to level 5 spells? Can your teenage halfling urchin bypass a DC35 stealth or lockpicking check on anything but a natural 20? Does the teenage halfing urchin have vast underworld connections and a mountain of favors owed to him by criminal barons? How high is your wizened old hags DC checks? Tell me what is your Wisdom value and the urchins Dexterity value?

These characters still fall under the exact rules and guidelines I am talking about. A wizened old crone is not the same as starting a level 1 character and in your backstory you have read thousands of spelltomes and incribed thousands of scrolls or you are the headmaster of the academy of magic.

Last edited by Argonaut; 19/10/20 01:36 PM.

I am here to discuss a video game. Please do not try to rope me into anything other than that. Thank you.