Originally Posted by robertthebard
Originally Posted by Abits
Again guys, it's not about gameplay versus story, I have no issues with the gameplay. Another example I came across today. Pay attention that not the combat is the problem here, but the way the quest, dialogue, and flags works in it:
More on the druid grove another choice that seem to be something the game might expect you to do - as I entered the grove the guard tries to stop me. I ignore them and then choose the attack option. This creates a lot of cheos. Initially I thought I had to fight only several guards but then I noticed many of the NPC's are leaving the grove area towards the camp (among them, khaga, Nettie, the tiefling bard and others). After I finished off the guards I went to the tiefling camp to so what's going on. There was a big battle between the tieflings and the remaining druids, all the tieflings were at my side against the druids. For reasons unknown Rath the druid fought at my side against the others. After the battle was over I went to Zavlor to try to figure out what the hell happened. Now this is the important part - Zevlor wasn't very clear, only said it had to be done and steered the conversation to the goblin threat. I went back to the grove to try to understand why Rath, with which I never talked before fought with me in the battle. Rath was standing and blocking the entrance to the grove. He also didn't have any explanations but curiously he said "we won". How did you won if all the druids but you are dead? Wtf.
Then I came back to my camp and gale is complaining to me about something that happened with the druids.
Now what the hell happened here other than standard Larian's mess? I think at some stage, I don't if it happened when I chose attack in the dialogue or at later stage, the quest to kill Khaga triggered. But no context, no proper resolution, no nothing. And it all started from me choosing a dialogue line, so again, I didn't even try to break the game but it broke so easily.

Or not? You chose to fight the druids when they tried to prevent your entry. There are story reasons for Rath to say "we won", and just because you didn't get the dialog, doesn't mean that his stance suddenly changed, it just means that you didn't get to the point where you got his dialog about the situation. While Zavlor didn't give you his quest, it's on his mind when he sends you to talk to Khaga, that's why there's an actual quest for it, after all. You chose to break that continuity. So the only way to fix this is to eliminate player choice at that juncture? Choices have consequences, you made your choice, and now it's somehow because the game is broken?

If there are story reasons for Rath to say "we won" I honestly have no idea what they are. even if I did know, it wouldn't make the scene better because in the scene itself it was not included. I described exactly what I did and what happened. if the game can't handle this choice and keep the story coherent and sensible, the choice shouldn't be there. as simple as that. Perhaps years of bioware have spoiled me, but I expect my games to make a narrative sense. If you gave me an option to do something and it destroyed any semblance of reason to the story, you should either think of how to make the story work despite of my choice or remove it.

since I can't seem to explain myself properly, I'll give a positive example. In the witcher 3 you have to find Ciri and you have three choices as to where to start looking. Level wise, it makes sense to go to the Baron's place for the start, otherwise, you will face very difficult enemies. but since you have this choice, the game is built in a way that allows you to do it. the game doesn't simply assume you will start valen and if you started your adventure in skelige, when you reach Novigrad people will ask you how you did there. moreover, the plot is set up in a way that allows you to visit these three places in any order you want, since you need to visit all of them to have full picture of where ciri is. If the witcher main quest line was designed like this quest from BG3, I would be lucky if I even knew I'm searching for ciri.


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."