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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
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1) I think it's not that big of an issue
2) Not that much of a big deal, i love xcom
3) From what i hear there's just too much of stuff, scrolls everywhere, lots of trinkets and magic weapons
4) 4 is too little, 5 is good, 6 would be a drag to manage inventory and 1 more char to controll during the fights, i think the game is designed for replayability, so not beeing able to see all tehris stories and have a second playthrough seems also good
5) yeap thats weird
6) its okay by me
7) yeah, twisted feelings, it seems a waste of resources, but it does helps with atmosphere
weird you didn't mention how unbalanced things seems right now, but a lot of good points raised(either on not agreeing with many), good post
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
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2) Translating the turns into real time makes since given that this is a video game. You can't have a DM shout all enemy actions at once given that it is... well, impossible. You also can't have all of the players shouting what they want to do given that it would be... well, stupid. But you must realize that those combat encounters would nevertheless happen in real time. The turn based system exists in table top due to the limitation stated above, it is merely a workaround for an impossible situation trying to simulate what would happen in real time. So, now that we have computers which are actually able to translate simultaneous enemy AI commands as well as that of your companions and your own... we shouldn't use this improved system because on a limited system it is not possible? It's dumb.
In regards to your point of the characters swinging once and then standing still (first of all this is pretty much beside the point but whatever), well, you won't say that if you have an improved haste berserker dwarf hacking away at something I'll tell you that right now xD But by that logic it is much more retarded to see an entire party stand still and look as one of your companions get completely mauled by several enemies while standing there doing nothing and the companions also doing nothing (poor teamwork if you ask me lol).
Your argument that turn combat is what D&D rules are made for... well, once more it's due to the limitation I already described, and regardless of that the original BGs had the turn based combat implemented. The entire game is turn based. It is simply shown to you in real time to have a better flow of the game, a greater feel of excitement and epicness as you can actually see the battle unfold, hear the warcries, the spells going off, the hits, etc. Turn based in BG3 is reddit or a stream, because I'll just alt tab while the AI are doing their stuff to prevent closing the game out of boredom.
2) Wrong. It is as if you're trying to make a real time strategy game based on chess rules. It doesn't work period. Yes BG was better than real-time chess, but you get the idea. Besides, why stop at BG level of computerization? Let's go crazy, use dice roll of 1,000 not d20, allow the decimals and smaller numbers too : 0.1 damage, 1.12 attacks for seconds, etc. Ability score of 12.4, etc. Because you can with computers... Keep doing it, and you pretty soon end up with something that has nothing to do with DnD. Also btw, in turn based games, your brain accepts that the other pieces remain still. That magic doesn't work in real time game. At least that's for me and I'm sure I'm not alone.
Last edited by Lumign; 20/10/20 02:54 AM.
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member
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OP
member
Joined: Oct 2020
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Hi everybody, thx for your participation in this thread !
IrenicusBG3,
I don't think it requires this much work. As somebody said, RTwP is more or less turn-base in his mechanics (again, BG1 and 2 had this option to automatic pause at each round which transform the game into a turn-based one)
UncleLester
Keep faith, keep faith ! We hate to ! Seriously, they should listen. And more, give the options.
Maximuuus,
2) It would be a good sign of auto-criticism if they give, at least, the option to...
Well, we agree of pretty everything so thx you to make me feel less lonely (and not completely crazy) with my opinion.
Of course there is other things, but I trust Larian to handle them ^^
Argonaut,
Indeed, indeed, and that's the reason a lot of rpg propose the two options.
Stray952,
I heard your point but difference is... when I say something to somebody in real life, I can't be sure to how he will respond BUT for sure it's not random. He will either agree or not disagree but not randomly. The world is not full of bipolar people changing their mind in the blink of an eye just cause, you know, the dice rolled.
I hope you get my point. And I repeat, I'm not fundamentaly against the dice (not my favorite mechanics but why not) I'm against the feeling of uselessness of my skills related to the dice.
BTW, I play BG1 and 2 for years, like more than 10 years, so I am one of this people who replay the same path over and over with little variation. Why ? Tell you why. Cause the game was freaking good and big with a lot of companion which means a lot of combination. Try to get it. ^^
About the character who speak it's a point I didn't mentio but yeah. It's really annoying to not have the opportunity to ever be the one who talk. I played a sorcerer and I'm forced to be front lane just cause I want to live MY ADVENTURE.
brunotavm
3) there's too much recipient ! I don't mind being full of magic weapons ! ^^ I mind opening tons of useless recipients... :'(
4) Ok... Look. I play BG1 and 2 for yeaaaars and it was a party fo 6 and the inventory was easy to manage (indeed in BG3 it's not that great but meh) and the replayability... I played it for years so it's not a problem, it's a question of Larian's will.
I didn't mention everything indeed, I tried to focus on the (for me) main problems. For the others, I trust Larian, plus I think some others people are better than me to judge some balancing questions.
Lumign
So you say it doesn't work period... But... BG1 and 2 perfectly worked. I mean they roxx in their way so your point seems invalid to me. You prefer turn-based, it's ok, but don't say RTwP doesn't work.
As I said I played RTwP as well as turn-based games. When I'm saying I think RTwP will be better for BG this is not a fanboy attitude (as some would like to think) it's my opinion after trying the EA.
And I explained why. Why it was too long, why it was not the optimal design for BG. I even said I would maybe like and use it for some boss fight.
Could we be a little "toned" ?
For me, there is an obvious problem with the long and uninteresting fights. And this is a double problem when this figth could be fast and funny with (as someone says) the warcries, the spells and arrows, etc etc.
I said it already and I say it again : I really don't appreciate what Larian said about the "no-tactical, no-strategy" of the real time. I thougth it was wrong and kinda pretentious but as the same time ? I didn't care cause the only thing I was thinking of was "I hope they are right, I hope BG3 will roxx no matter what system they choose cause damn, I waited it for years and I don't care if it's RTwP or utrn-based as long as it roxx."
So I buy the EA (for the first time in my life) cause I wanna know, cause I was excited, cause I wanna be a part of it and here I am. Posting a review for the first time in my life, not because I am a fan-boy who can't go forward but because I am a fan-boy full of hope who's a bit disappointed.
I'm posting cause I think I have a good knowledge of RPGs. I read people here and there saying things like "it's a D&D, follwo the rules!" or "It's BG3, it have to evolve!"
I would like for all of them to read my thread and heard me.
This is not about D&D, this is not about being BG3, this is about being a good game.
Is it good to have a 15-20 minutes fight to kill a bunch of goblins ? Is it epic ? Is it exciting ? Not from my point of view.
About your speech about the computer, you're overstating.
Following your thinking, D&D is about a DM telling a story. So if you are for a litteral transposition of D&D on a computer it should be just text, no graphics, no 3D cause it has "nothing to do with D&D" ? ^^
I'm not an expert of D&D but I agree with peoples who said they did their best to recreate real fights. Obviously you can't make real time fight around a table et would be a mess !
But I think if you ask a D&D gamer, would you like to play your adventure in virtual reality they would go crazy and say yes and they wont except for your game to make them wait 6 minutes before they could swing their sword or even wait to be hit by the ennemy cause it would have been "their turn".
Just look at all the webcomics on the subject. Is there any of them where it's turn-based ? Of course not.
So again, I have nothing against chess and turn-based, I play it, I love it but if youre in love with D&D and fantasy world, there is a moment where you'll seek for the most realistic simulation. And then, obviously, real time is more realistic.
But again, here it's not the point. For BG3, the point is what's the best to have fun ? And my answer (just mine) is both of them.
Again, I'll never understood this bad habit from some developpers who want to force their way on the player's mind (especially when they could easily offer two options).
Finally, you said " in turn based games, your brain accepts that the other pieces remain still. That magic doesn't work in real time game." Honestly, Im' not sure to understand what you want to say but it makes me wonder did you play BG1 and 2 ? Cause it was real time and it was full of magic in many ways. But surely I missunderstood something here ? ^^"
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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Also btw, in turn based games, your brain accepts that the other pieces remain still. That magic doesn't work in real time game. For me it's the opposite. In RTwP, pausing is like pausing a movie. It's a piece of UI, so to speak, and does not make the actors appear fake or whatever because the movie is paused. In TB, it feels like your party encountered bloodthirsty bandits and... proceeded to settle their differences by playing chess. Nothing wrong with chess, but it's jarring. Like the characters are in a weird temporal shift or overly courteous: "now I shall politely wait for you to stab me with that sword". So no - my brain does not accept that the other pieces remain still.  I'd probably be fine with turns in a strategy game (Civ or what not), because it's largely symbolic anyway. A cRPG, on the other hand, has characters in their environment that are supposed to "faithfully" represent what happens in the game world, so them suddenly stopping and entering TB strains (my at least) suspension of disbelief. (By the above I don't mean "RTwP king, TB shit"; I think both are very valid systems and it's fine to like either - or both! But I very much disagree with this particular point.) And I have to agree with Zefhyr's response to your other points, I don't think there's much more to add.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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1) GIVE ME BACK THE CLICK AND DRAG !!!
No. The more I work with the current system, I think a simple Ungroup All/Regroup All toggle button along with fixed pathing so they dont walk through poo would be fine.
2) GIVE ME BACK THE ACTIVE PAUSE !!!
Nope. I love the tactical nature of this combat. Its WAY better than BG1/2
3) boxes, chests, bags... everywhere...
Yes. Right now after you loot a mob, if you hit alt it shows "empty". just have all mobs and boxes that are empty say so when you hit tab. I hate opening 50 bookshelves/boxes/crates in a room to find an apple in one.
4) By the way, I agree with all the people who asked for 6 of them.
No. This is a game design decision. Look how popular Neverwinter was... I am fine with this.
5) The companions, [sex stuff]
No. Lots of people do it on a 1st date. Like real life...easy to say not interested. Couls make this a parental control type setting.
6) I'm not fond of the roll-dice stuff.
Nope. Dice rolls are litterally the heart of DnD
7) It'll be the last, I promess ! I love the fact that the camera zoom on people when we talk with them.
Nope. Love it.
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member
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OP
member
Joined: Oct 2020
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Hi,
Rumrunner151,
1) I'm not convinced. Even with a ungroup/regroup all button it wont be as smooth as the classic but effective click and drag. But it could be both (BG1 and 2 had both if I remembered correctly btw ^^).
The sad fact is the actual system is calibrated for console which is cool... for console and sad for pc gamer.
2) Well... As I said, BG1 and 2 had a kind of a turned-based option. So, again we could have both, at least. ^^
4)... Well... Look how popular BG1 and 2 was. But yeah it's a game design decision, nothing more.
5) I would like to oppose on this one. "Lots of people do it on a first date" ? Well... I ask for some stats ! Cause I strongly disagree.
And I have no problem with sex or proposition but I don't think everybody do it on the first "date". Guess we need an expert's advice on this question so.
6) I get it, I played lots of D&D games. But, as I said, this is not D&D, this is a game inspired by D&D (for what I know, Larian already did some changes :p). More, as I said, I'm not strongly against the probability stuff but in this case I found it too frustrating and I played games, based on D&D, which didn't give me this feeling.
7) Didn't say, I didn't "love" it... Elsewhere, you quote it. ^^
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