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Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Bossk_Hogg
I'm confused by these posts. Gale and Wyll are clearly good, Shadowheart is neutral with good leanings, and Astarion and LAezal are evil leaning. Gale and Wyll in particular are chipper, fun loving guys. What the hell are you people doing to piss them off?!

Shadowheart is a Sharite. Astarion and Lae are cringe evil. Gale is a power hungry sycophant with delusions of grandeur and Wyll took power from an evil being. None of these characters are good.


Well, it seems unlikely she's really a Sharite, given her personality, backstory, the Selune glows, and the fact that she rarely likes evil choices. She doesnt even care when you refuse rewards. She enjoys messing with people (the "how would you kill the blade game" and ambushes, but neither are evil. Gale is fairly good. Power Hungry in and of itself isnt bad, though I havent seen that in either of my playthroughs. Gale likes helping others and is friendly/agreeable, and easily counts as positive. He approves of almost all good choices, and I dont think I've seen him disagree on what I would term my CG play through other than giving Myrina the wand (because he doesnt like undead and is horrified... how evil!). Same with Wyll. He took a dark bargain, and while YOU might consider that evil, 5E clearly doesn't. Arrogance isnt evil either, and he honestly enjoys helping others (tiefling kids being a good example). How far in the game are you even? Their attitudes at the tiefling celebration reveal a lot. You seem to be caught up a lot on humility = good. These characters arent here to pump up your low self esteem.

But then again you have your opinion, which isnt really supported by the actual gameplay. I'm not sure what you all are doing to piss them off. I suspect its a classic case of PEBKAC.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Bossk_Hogg
I'm confused by these posts. Gale and Wyll are clearly good, Shadowheart is neutral with good leanings, and Astarion and LAezal are evil leaning. Gale and Wyll in particular are chipper, fun loving guys. What the hell are you people doing to piss them off?!

Shadowheart is a Sharite. Astarion and Lae are cringe evil. Gale is a power hungry sycophant with delusions of grandeur and Wyll took power from an evil being. None of these characters are good.

Well put.

And for all the talk of: "the good companions are coming later," the possible additional companions don't seem very "good" either with the exception of one certain individual. Seems like Larian's message here is: If you want to have a good-aligned party, you have to go with a custom party. But that is so wrong in a party-based cRPG.



how about you stop assuming stuff like that and just wait for what's to come? any of what you're saying Larians 'message' is, completely lacks evidence. never did they hint on there being only evil companions.

And how can anyone say Wyll is evil just because he made a deal with an evil entity? the reasons why he did it are important. and if you play an evil playthrough you will find out really quickly that he does not approve of your actions. not so evil afterall.

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Originally Posted by Sigi98
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Bossk_Hogg
I'm confused by these posts. Gale and Wyll are clearly good, Shadowheart is neutral with good leanings, and Astarion and LAezal are evil leaning. Gale and Wyll in particular are chipper, fun loving guys. What the hell are you people doing to piss them off?!

Shadowheart is a Sharite. Astarion and Lae are cringe evil. Gale is a power hungry sycophant with delusions of grandeur and Wyll took power from an evil being. None of these characters are good.

Well put.

And for all the talk of: "the good companions are coming later," the possible additional companions don't seem very "good" either with the exception of one certain individual. Seems like Larian's message here is: If you want to have a good-aligned party, you have to go with a custom party. But that is so wrong in a party-based cRPG.



how about you stop assuming stuff like that and just wait for what's to come? any of what you're saying Larians 'message' is, completely lacks evidence. never did they hint on there being only evil companions in the finished game.

And how can anyone say Wyll is evil just because he made a deal with an evil entity? the reasons why he did it are important. and if you play an evil playthrough you will find out really quickly that he does not approve of your actions. not so evil afterall.


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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Bossk_Hogg
I'm confused by these posts. Gale and Wyll are clearly good, Shadowheart is neutral with good leanings, and Astarion and LAezal are evil leaning. Gale and Wyll in particular are chipper, fun loving guys. What the hell are you people doing to piss them off?!

Shadowheart is a Sharite. Astarion and Lae are cringe evil. Gale is a power hungry sycophant with delusions of grandeur and Wyll took power from an evil being. None of these characters are good.

Well put.

And for all the talk of: "the good companions are coming later," the possible additional companions don't seem very "good" either with the exception of one certain individual. Seems like Larian's message here is: If you want to have a good-aligned party, you have to go with a custom party. But that is so wrong in a party-based cRPG.



You can or will be able to have a custom party in bg3 single player? I know you can in Solasta; a single player custom party. I didn't see this as an option here.

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Originally Posted by cgexile
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Bossk_Hogg
I'm confused by these posts. Gale and Wyll are clearly good, Shadowheart is neutral with good leanings, and Astarion and LAezal are evil leaning. Gale and Wyll in particular are chipper, fun loving guys. What the hell are you people doing to piss them off?!

Shadowheart is a Sharite. Astarion and Lae are cringe evil. Gale is a power hungry sycophant with delusions of grandeur and Wyll took power from an evil being. None of these characters are good.

Well put.

And for all the talk of: "the good companions are coming later," the possible additional companions don't seem very "good" either with the exception of one certain individual. Seems like Larian's message here is: If you want to have a good-aligned party, you have to go with a custom party. But that is so wrong in a party-based cRPG.



You can or will be able to have a custom party in bg3 single player? I know you can in Solasta; a single player custom party. I didn't see this as an option here.

Yes it will be possible in the full game, just not in the EA. Good for people who like that, but not for me as I will not play with noninteractive companions.

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Originally Posted by Sigi98
how about you stop assuming stuff like that and just wait for what's to come? any of what you're saying Larians 'message' is, completely lacks evidence. never did they hint on there being only evil companions.

Oh right, but you can assume there will be plenty of good companions. 90% of what's being discussed in this forum is based on people's assumptions and expectations, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. So how about you stop telling people how they should see things or how they should post.

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"Larian's massage" is a giant mass these days


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by cgexile

You can or will be able to have a custom party in bg3 single player? I know you can in Solasta; a single player custom party. I didn't see this as an option here.

Yes it will be possible in the full game, just not in the EA. Good for people who like that, but not for me as I will not play with noninteractive companions.


Yeah I can see how that could get pretty boring even if it's possible.

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Originally Posted by Abits
"Larian's massage" is a giant mass these days

LOL

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Originally Posted by Bossk_Hogg
Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Bossk_Hogg
I'm confused by these posts. Gale and Wyll are clearly good, Shadowheart is neutral with good leanings, and Astarion and LAezal are evil leaning. Gale and Wyll in particular are chipper, fun loving guys. What the hell are you people doing to piss them off?!

Shadowheart is a Sharite. Astarion and Lae are cringe evil. Gale is a power hungry sycophant with delusions of grandeur and Wyll took power from an evil being. None of these characters are good.


Well, it seems unlikely she's really a Sharite, given her personality, backstory, the Selune glows, and the fact that she rarely likes evil choices. She doesnt even care when you refuse rewards. She enjoys messing with people (the "how would you kill the blade game" and ambushes, but neither are evil. Gale is fairly good. Power Hungry in and of itself isnt bad, though I havent seen that in either of my playthroughs. Gale likes helping others and is friendly/agreeable, and easily counts as positive. He approves of almost all good choices, and I dont think I've seen him disagree on what I would term my CG play through other than giving Myrina the wand (because he doesnt like undead and is horrified... how evil!). Same with Wyll. He took a dark bargain, and while YOU might consider that evil, 5E clearly doesn't. Arrogance isnt evil either, and he honestly enjoys helping others (tiefling kids being a good example). How far in the game are you even? Their attitudes at the tiefling celebration reveal a lot. You seem to be caught up a lot on humility = good. These characters arent here to pump up your low self esteem.

But then again you have your opinion, which isnt really supported by the actual gameplay. I'm not sure what you all are doing to piss them off. I suspect its a classic case of PEBKAC.


She is definitely a Sharite, it's on her character sheet.

She's just of the "mostly nice person duped into evil cult somehow" type instead of the "world swallowed by my mistress's darkness" type.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
I see Shadowheart as the evil one and if anything Lae'zel as the neutral one.


With respect this is where you are losing out by getting the impressions from the videos and not the game itself smile I urge you get the game so your opinions have a greater chance of influencing the final product.

You are missing the moment to moment interactions the -- Shadowheart 'approves', Lae'zel disapproves pop ups. Anytime I talk my way out of conflict SH is happy and LZ isn't. SH tends to approve of expressions of kindness, LZ doesn't. When you save an innocent -- from a child to an owlbear cub you get "Shadowheart approves".

LZ is a perfect LE space nazi. (stole that)

Like you, I want alignment in the system and we both want an entirely good party. If someone wants to play with the equivalent of the core BG party they should be able to do so.

But I do like the battle for souls that I think I'm seeing. My guess is that SH was either a priest of Selune or one of the kids abducted by the Sharrans in the blighted village. We may even be wandering through the places where she was abducted. So yes, SH is neutral evil but having a crisis of faith -- does listen to her heart or to the teachings of her goddess? I'm hoping that she will look to the MC for "should I embrace Shar" or "should I return to Selune instead"

And, again, this echoes Viconia who is the one evil character who doesn't urge you to join with Bodhi, the one evil character who will save the beggar from prison etc. In fact the only evil act she approves of is turning into the slayer. She was a Sharran that becomes neutral.

And Wyll is clearly on a road to damnation but he refuses to take the evil path of the game and he wants nothing more than to be seen as hero. He's also walking tightrope and I hope the devs let him fall either way (on our advice). His personal quest is to get out of the infernal deal he's trapped in -- which could come to a crisis point, will he give up that power and *be* good or will he let his vanity doom him. Right now I'd put him as Chaotic neutral, tending evil but redeemable.

Now I also want Mazzy Fentan. Granted there wasn't that much to Mazzy but I loved everything we got. Just a good person who is out to fight evil, make the world a better place and enjoy some adventures. So sick of the continuum of video games that only have a continuum from edgelord to yet another "grey" chacter who understands that morality is subjective and people are just mix.



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I wonder if there is a save / damn Shadowheart arc in BG3. I think it would be cool if you could by choices, decide if she goes lightside or darkside. smile

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Originally Posted by Merry Mayhem
I wonder if there is a save / damn Shadowheart arc in BG3. I think it would be cool if you could by choices, decide if she goes lightside or darkside. smile

I'm pretty sure that's exactly the direction they will go with her. The fact it's predictable doesn't necessarily means it's bad, it all depends on execution. So far I think they did a pretty good job with her. Surprisingly, Shadowheart's story arc reminds me a little of Cecil's story arc from Final Fantasy 4

Last edited by Abits; 23/10/20 07:18 PM.

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Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by Merry Mayhem
I wonder if there is a save / damn Shadowheart arc in BG3. I think it would be cool if you could by choices, decide if she goes lightside or darkside. smile

I'm pretty sure that's exactly the direction they will go with her. The fact it's predictable doesn't necessarily means it's bad, it all depends on execution. So far I think they did a pretty good job with her.


Yes, just because it's a trope does not mean it can't be fun smile

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Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by Merry Mayhem
I wonder if there is a save / damn Shadowheart arc in BG3. I think it would be cool if you could by choices, decide if she goes lightside or darkside. smile

I'm pretty sure that's exactly the direction they will go with her. The fact it's predictable doesn't necessarily means it's bad, it all depends on execution. So far I think they did a pretty good job with her. Surprisingly, Shadowheart's story arc reminds me a little of Cecil's story arc from Final Fantasy 4


Indeed, I'm also quite sure that player's actions will push her towards "good" or "evil" by the end and doing nothing will leave her as uncertain "neutral" character. Pretty much same goes for any other of current companions and I see it somehow like this:

Gale- "Good" he stops his fanatic devotion and power hunger. "Bad" he will be consumed by it and will just end as sociopath or will blow off some city.

Wyll- Seems like Larian favourite character archetype- Monster Hunter contracted with the Devil. Jahan was cool, so they should handle it. Good" I guess cutting the deal with his Devil or somehow making it mutual relationship (I just have feeling that she is more like Luficer from DC rather than just pure Evil)? I mean it's hard to say until we will see what kind of Devil she is. "Evil" something like him becoming the Devil, so thing he hated at the start.

Shadowheart- will say it again, probably the most interesting character right now for me. Pretty much Selune blessed child, but raised by Shar cult. "Good" prettych much some kind of hero path (from neutral opportunist) and things like dialogues after saving Tieflings vs dialogues after Goblin win confirm it. "Evil" will end up as Shar enforcer.

Lae'zel- prettych much straightforward character which is nice. "Good" ends up as some kind of Githyanki rebel. "Evil" just stays as she is at the start and will have higher role in her society.

Astarion- free spirit guy, so probably most open for endings now. "Good" he becomes a Vampire Hunter? (Vampire Vampire-Hunter) "Evil" something like killing his master, taking his role and enslaving as many people as possible.

That why I think leaving Alignment is good idea as just opens more possibilities. Also there is lower risk of non sense like some characters in Pathfinder: Kingmaker have been.


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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
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Originally Posted by Thrythlind
Originally Posted by Bossk_Hogg
Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Bossk_Hogg
I'm confused by these posts. Gale and Wyll are clearly good, Shadowheart is neutral with good leanings, and Astarion and LAezal are evil leaning. Gale and Wyll in particular are chipper, fun loving guys. What the hell are you people doing to piss them off?!

Shadowheart is a Sharite. Astarion and Lae are cringe evil. Gale is a power hungry sycophant with delusions of grandeur and Wyll took power from an evil being. None of these characters are good.


Well, it seems unlikely she's really a Sharite, given her personality, backstory, the Selune glows, and the fact that she rarely likes evil choices. She doesnt even care when you refuse rewards. She enjoys messing with people (the "how would you kill the blade game" and ambushes, but neither are evil. Gale is fairly good. Power Hungry in and of itself isnt bad, though I havent seen that in either of my playthroughs. Gale likes helping others and is friendly/agreeable, and easily counts as positive. He approves of almost all good choices, and I dont think I've seen him disagree on what I would term my CG play through other than giving Myrina the wand (because he doesnt like undead and is horrified... how evil!). Same with Wyll. He took a dark bargain, and while YOU might consider that evil, 5E clearly doesn't. Arrogance isnt evil either, and he honestly enjoys helping others (tiefling kids being a good example). How far in the game are you even? Their attitudes at the tiefling celebration reveal a lot. You seem to be caught up a lot on humility = good. These characters arent here to pump up your low self esteem.

But then again you have your opinion, which isnt really supported by the actual gameplay. I'm not sure what you all are doing to piss them off. I suspect its a classic case of PEBKAC.


She is definitely a Sharite, it's on her character sheet.

She's just of the "mostly nice person duped into evil cult somehow" type instead of the "world swallowed by my mistress's darkness" type.


Did you notice her hands glow when you find the journal about the kids kidnapped by the Sharites? And that she was mindwiped? She really just seems brainwashed. She can quote Shar teachings but doesnt seem to have internalized them to a large degree.

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Originally Posted by Merry Mayhem
I wonder if there is a save / damn Shadowheart arc in BG3. I think it would be cool if you could by choices, decide if she goes lightside or darkside. smile


Gale even remarks on it if you have high approval and romance her.

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Originally Posted by DZs7


Astarion- free spirit guy, so probably most open for endings now. "Good" he becomes a Vampire Hunter? (Vampire Vampire-Hunter) "Evil" something like killing his master, taking his role and enslaving as many people as possible.

That why I think leaving Alignment is good idea as just opens more possibilities. Also there is lower risk of non sense like some characters in Pathfinder: Kingmaker have been.



But notice that used the alignment system to make your point. smile The alignment is the goal post, it's the umpire's decision, it's the game telling you if you completed the quest or not. It structures the world we play in.

I do agree that Astarian is the least likely to transform but I'm still hoping that he will be the Spike to my Buffy. I mean if you just look at Spike in the first few seasons there's not much chance he'll change, right?

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