Originally Posted by DistantStranger
Originally Posted by robertthebard
[quote=DistantStranger]
Are they? Are the druids performing the ritual really just waiting for you to interrupt them, or are they in the middle of casting a ritual? I'm getting this "in a SP game, the zones should be dead of anything not directly tied to a story" vibe, intended or not. "Feels like a chore" doesn't leave me feeling like there were too many NPCs in the zone, but more with the "I've done this so many times" vibe. I get that vibe a lot. I had that vibe a lot in Baldur's Gate, with over 110 completions, but there's that thing, I did it a lot of times, and introduced myself to burn out, to the point where BG 2 was less, although not a lot less... In Mass Effect, I'll get to certain points, 1, 2 or 3 where I'm like "dread, this again", and will save and log out and come back later. I get a lot of "I'm not ready to deal with this right now" moments, and none of them are the fault of game design, or being too busy, but simply because I burnt myself out.

The nice thing about my disability, if there really is one, is that after a few months, I'll forget all about what's coming, and can almost enjoy it like a new experience. Playing the Tomb Raider reboot games, I'd get to a point, and just stop progressing and do the little side missions, optional tombs, collections, etc. It doesn't have anything to do with "Busy Busy Faerun", not even in Faerun, just burnt out, or not wanting to deal with what's next. Nothing in the OP suggested anything like what you're saying here, and I get that from "after 10 times, it just feels like a chore".



That's great but not everything is about you.

The introduction to the Grove starts with an interrupted fracas. From there you will encounter a heated exchange with the survivors, someone who tells you everyone is being evicted because the Druids are going dark unless they are spoken to/someone is rescued. From there you meet an overly aggressive squirrel, intervene in an assassination, help someone compose a song, save a child from some harpies, teach another child how to be a better thief, motivate yet some other children who are learning how to fight, helping still more children steal a statue, rescuing yet another child who had attempted to steal said statue whilst dispersing a lynch mob, investigating strange brews and the bitch who peddles them, giving someone hope for their future, convincing three friends they should stick around and lend a hand if things should go south, investigating the ad hoc leader of the settlement, helping a rat who can't distinguish steel from food, saving a goblin POW. . .This is just what I recall off the top of my head, I am sure I did not nail them all. In a small city of a few hundred residents this would still seem a little overwrought, but this is a glorified commune where every knot of people you stumble into has a unique problem they want you to help them with.

In an MMO, if Johnny Thundercock and little Sally Rottencrotch want you collect 10 lamb caecum, noone bats an eyelash so long as three lines of dialogue or less explain their motivation. Noone cares. They just want an excuse to run out into the pasture and mutilate some lambs. An RPG on the other hand should be about story, and little of this contributes anything meaningful. Despite much of it being thematically linked, it all feels like content for the sake of having content. It is busy work, the sort of shit a bad manager assigns to an employee who has handled their responsibilities but is still on the clock.

I am glad you are happy with the game as it is, most people will be. However good enough is never sufficient argument against pursuing excellence. Musical scores should be written so that the audience enjoys it, obviously, but there is no reason why they cannot also impress other musicians with interesting chord progressions, challenging time signature, or novel composition. This is true of any art form one might care to consider. If good enough really were we would still be playing fucking Dig Dug.


Gotta love it. You left out the most important variables to the OP while you preach away at how games should be made. What were those variables, you ask, and if you're not asking, you well should be, because they flew right over your head in your eagerness to display some kind of omniscient knowledge of both game design and player reactions, "After the 10th time" is the first clue, followed by "it felt like a chore". What does any of this have to do with MMOs? What does any of this have to do with anything you're throwing out there? Let me give you the short answer: Nothing. You got your name in print, I guess that's something, but as far as what the topic was about, you're about 6 galaxies away from relevant.

Did you know that guitarists, to this day cite Smoke on the Water as one of the reasons they picked up a guitar? I'm going to go out on a limb and say "no, you had no idea". They impressed a lot of musicians, even potential musicians, with a really simple riff. Getting complicated is great. I love me some Yngwie, and Joe Satriani. Got some CDs by both staring at me right now. I love me some classical music too, "Fur Elise" is one of my favorite pieces of music ever. I played the cello for about 8 years in school, before I gave it up, because I can't afford to buy one. But I enjoy that simple little riff just as much. I even had a simple little piece featured in a NWN module once. It was a little something I wrote for one of the players that passed from our little group, and the mod builder added to his module in a Tribute room. Things evolve, whether it's games or music. The issue the OP is addressing is different from what you think it is. For all the quests that are in the Druid Grove, there are just as many NPCs that are presented to add weight to whatever decisions you make regarding the fate of the Grove. With all this exposition, I thought for sure you would have picked up on that bit of subtext, but it seems you fell woefully short of your own standard here, yes?