Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Why the aggressive 5e Feedback?

There are simple fixes that are easily implemeted into the game. None of what I am suggesting is impossible to do with the engine they have.

Make or break changes that need to be implimented or the game will not even be close to a faithful representation of DnD

1) Backstab/facing- remove the facing aspect and make it from stealth or if target is flanked.

2) Barrelmancy - Sorry, but wine is not explosive or particularly flamable and should not catch fire at all. Could it be used for difficult terrain, yes, but not flaming death. Grease should have to be targeted specifically in order to catch fire. Limit the number to what would be actually reasonable and in places where it would make sence. Furthermore, characters should not be able to transfer items once in combat unless they use an action to do so and are in melee range of the character they wish to trade with. This also gets rid of trading healing pots in battle.

3) Jump/Disengage - In the players handbook, disengage is a full action. It just allows you to disengage from an attacker so you can move away from them without suffering an attack of opprotunity. Jump is simply a movement action, if you go past someones threat range they should get an attack of opprotunity just as if they had moved through your threat range. Jumping should also break your stealth.

4) Height advantage - High ground should never give avantage. I would reccommend the simple +1 or +2 to attack from high ground and possible range extension. Also no disadvantage to shooting from low ground. Again a simple -1 or -2 would be fair for showing possible cover

5) Dodge - Add this full action into the game. It is an essential part of the core rules.

6) HP bloat - This may be a necessary evil since missing most of the time is not fun at early levels. My solution would be a tiny increase to mage spell damage to compensate.

7) Mage cantrips - Fire bolt, acid splash, and ray of frost needs the surface functions removed and their damage set to what is in the rules. Acid splash simply does 1d6 damage to one or two targets within 5 feet of eachother, not create a persistent acid puddle, Ray of frost simply does 1d8 damage and slows the target by 10ft of movement, not create a persistent area of ice and freeze water to knock things prone, Fire bolt does simply 1d10 damage to a target, not set them on fire and a persistent fire effect below them. It even specifically states it cannot be used to set things on fire that are worn or carried by the target. These three spell changes are my biggest problems so far, these three spells are what gives this game the feeling of being more Divinity than BG. Since these are what are lending to the Barrelmancy/surface warfare part of the game.

8) Monters being faithful to the rules - Minotaur and hook horror frogs that just jump around every turn is plain silly and has no ground it the rule book at all. 4th lvl fighters do not get 2 attack every round like the two 4th lvl duergar in the underdark. If those two duergar were ment to be 5th lvl instead and the 4th lvl tag for them is a bug, then that point is moot. There is most likely many more examples of this.

9) Push - This is an attack action in the rules and needs to be one in the game as well.


More nitpicky stuff that isn't make or break for me

1) Resting - limit how often you can take long rests

2) Waypoints - This has absolutly no grounding in Forgotten Realms lore at all. There are ancient portals in the realm, but they are very few and far between, and most no longer work. I put this under nit picking, because I know modern gamers are a lazy bunch and don't like spending 5 minutes to walk around a map and just want to teleport everywhere so I have no illusion that this will be changed. Just sad that a world I have known for so long is getting it's lore gutted like this for laziness.

Answer: 5/4 measure.

>>>>>>>> https://forums.larian.com//ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=681316

Nice, I clicked on the soundcloud link the OP made of his version with 5/4 and that tempo really does change it a lot! He only used the section of the intro music that had drums and horns which was closer to the marching cadence I spoke of, but having the tempo change made it more forceful and did transform the music. I have a feeling this would feel unnatural for the other sections as they changed styles a few times through the song.

1) agreed

2) Agree with the item sharing in combat. Flammable alcohol and grease are things that exist. Could poke fun at putting out a grease fire with water though.

3) agree, wellll I can see rogue type characters jumping stealthily

4) Height is pretty much working as cover. You're not going to see as much of someone standing on a rooftop and you're going to have to put in more energy to reach them. Range extension would be nice and I think getting rid of the attack advantage from being high would be fine

5) yup

6) I would think this would be necessary evil due to how easy it to rest or even just self heal with food. Definitely wouldn't need to make mage spells stronger. To get rid of the bloat, I'd think they have to nerf food and figure out something for resting. Give it cost like gold for supplies or put quests and story events on a timer.

7) Given the current state of easy resting making spells easier to use and hp bloat, the suped up cantrips kind of work in this state of the game. I personally like that they stand out more from each with the different effects. I like the surface gameplay as well. Making the enemy wade through fire to get to me. Being splashed by poisonous spider blood and having that "oh sh!t" moment. Dropping a hanging brazier on a goblin is fun.

8) Likely is a bug and something to do with the level cap being 4 at the moment

9) Yeah it being an action would be fine. Same with Hide and Disengage. Yeeting people off the edge of things is great and I don't understand people that want to take it away entirely in other threads.

10) Yup. Seeing how people play the game and feedback from players will hopefully give them ideas the change how resting works

11)I appreciate the QoL improvements. Don't need to make an already long game longer with walking back n forth between empty places

YES, yes, a thousand times yes! Thank you for providing that link and I've already thanked the original author. That seriously changes the entire audio 'feel' of the main theme music and suddenly turns the "Intro Music is Too Similar to DoS" factor into a BG factor. It's sort of sad how (easy? I have no idea how hard that was) a single poster could produce a dramatically more authentic to BG sound. Updating my Master List to include.

7) is a must fix. The surface warfare is the main culprit that makes this game not feel like a DnD game. It's the standard Divinity game. That all fights come down to spreading either water or grease then either freezing it electrifying it or igniting it to make a huge AoE. This is very Divinity and not DnD at all.

11) as I said due to laziness. you can tranverse from any one point to one on the opposite side of the map in less than 3 minutes. That is short attention span laziness and frankly ruins established lore of a world.

Apparently you have never played demon souls or dark souls series. You just killed people in real time with only backsteps in the fight behind them and turned into the back. So yes that is a completely normal kill art and just as permitted in the game. There is no need for further discussion.

I was unaware we were playing Dark Souls 4, my bad.

That's seriously the worst argument we've seen so far, which is saying something. Dark Souls is great for a lot of things, balancing a D&D 5e based game sure ain't one of them.

I agree the marketing and the early access counter act each other.. We were sold promises of a D&D 5th edition game but so far we have been given a homebrew divinity game.. I personally did not like DoS games very much, which is why i was worried when Larion revealed they were making BG3.. My fears are we will not be getting what the early marketing was sold to us as..

I feel the DoS3 echo chamber is what Larion deserves as its literally what most customers didn't want.. Please Larion overhaul these fake rules asap and the angry customer noises will some what go away..

You don't have to use any of this. No opponent will destroy an oil barrel or throw it at you. No enemy will change weapons in battle. If you don't want to use these options then don't do it. Play the game according to your 5e rules, the game doesn't have to impose it on you, no no no. You can impose that on yourself. If you don't want you to switch to the other side so quickly then slow it down. Where is your problem. I suspect dissatisfied spirits want to force their will on others and such spirits always have something to complain about and even for broken games. I am very satisfied with the game and what I can and can do. Sure I can smoke everything out with aoe, but that doesn't mean that I do it. Since it's getting boring, I think of something new. I always invite fights like this to try what else is possible, like luring enemies onto the roof and then throwing them into the river. The game is fun but your stiff rules make it more of a fun brake (fun killer)


Sure you can't please everyone, but ride it on the devil and spoil it is not D&D is not 5E for me it hangs out after 4 weeks. We play against an AI and there is no human GM who intervenes in an emergency like at the table. This is a video game and it orientates itself as best it can without being a fun killer. In every game there are opportunities to use mechanics, but that is up to the player himself. There is no competition here you play for yourself. Sry for me bad Engl. and hard sound

You said in a fight you can't stab an enemy from behind? I wrote, but I'm sure something like that is possible. Where is the difference between lap-based and real-time? It doesn't matter whether I run around the opponent or jump, the point backstep is allowed. What do you want to change about it. That you are no longer allowed to move in a fight, the enemy should turn with you. Then I stab him in the back with another char that easy.

What the hell are you talking about ?
Dark Souls ? We're talking about Baldur's Gate and D&D...

+ "Normal kill art"

The way the 5e rules are written without facing, you can sneak attack as long as the ally is within 5ft or 1.5m of the target and/or if you have advantage.

Flanking rules became optional apparently so you don't' have to attack from behind like most of us have been taught over the years of gaming. So if I blind the target, crouch and hide in front of the target, shove the target down to prone, or use some sort sort of CC like hold person, or even cast faerie fire or true strike, I can then sneak attack from any position (I'm sure I got something wrong there as I played table top d&d 3 times ever in my life, so correct me if needed).

If flanking rules are permitted by the DM (as they are here), you can gain advantage from side and rear flanks and perform sneak attacks without additional actions.

Many on the forums seem to object because it is too easy to flank and reach the back due to turn based combat and claim improbability or immersion breaking. As mentioned above, bad kind of a bad example, dark souls allows you to square off face to face and in real time you can still manage to get behind someone.

In real life fighting/sparing, I know for a fact it is easy to get behind an opponent in a face to face fight with proper footwork (if they go forward you move in an oblique and angle past them). Add in manipulation of the limbs and it is even easier to get behind someone in a fight...so I guess grapple as some have mentioned is a missing skill in this game.

So "back stabbing" sneak attacking is wholly possible from the front or in a 1 on 1 fight, even with d&d rules.

Anyway, why are so many of you worried about immersion and reality in a table top game revolving around magic and dragons, but it is immersion breaking to you that a guy can stab someone in the back at will?

The problem is not only that it's immersion breaking. It looks visualy stupid but it also completely break all the combats.
A tactical game in which everything is an easy mechanic is not tactical anymore... Backstab is completely broken atm and even the heavier warrior in the heavier armor can backstab everyone in 1vs1.

What you describe "in Real life" absolutely don't looks like how backstab work in D&D, and it also look absolutely not accurate to reality... Exept if you can move way faster than your opponent... Which is something our characters aren't able to do in BG3 and D&D.

The visual representation in this game (the jump) is an animation that could be represented by anything for disengage, for simplicity sake they made jump and disengage the same action. Enemy targets that disengage do not jump and instead create a sort of "whirl" of wind at their feet to show they are able to move away without an attack of opportunity.

Currently in game you don't have to even jump behind a target...you can...sure, but if you just use your movement to walk at a slight angle to the target you can gain advantage. People jump because it is easier to do without having to look to see if pathing is going to force you to walk too far out and cause an AoO. If they replace disengage with a different animation, all of the sudden your immersion breaking problem looks natural again...the actions are exactly the same though...so I feel that is just a shallow level of thinking on your half.

Now the argument on if disengage should be an action versus bonus action is another issue. I guess rogues have cunning action that is unique to them to allow this, so the above scenarios to permit sneak attack still work.

For the perception that "anyone" can backstab even in heavy armor....only rogues are getting the sneak attack bonus damage, the other classes are simply gaining advantage to get 2 dice rolls. It is not immersion breaking to believe that if I get you off balance and get to the side of you, it is drastically harder for you to defend yourself while it is easier for me to land a hit on you.

Just because you can't visualize or process these actions anything other than a surface level verbatim definition does not mean it is impossible and immersion breaking. Your lack of imagination and adaptability makes scenarios you are not familiar with limiting to you.

As far as breaking combat, again the rogue can already gain sneak attack through smart use of tools and should be aiming at getting bonus damage as much as possible otherwise they are not using all of the tools available to them as a class and is a misuse of your skills. Because people are more being efficient, does not inherently mean the game is being broken.

First it is immersion breaking cause that can't happen in real life, and then real life is nothing how D&D works and can't happen that way...can't have both.

Ok so things can be stupid and inconsistent as soon as you don't HAVE to do them. And yeah, it's easier to mix jump/disengage so no problem if the combats looks totally ridiculous... Because I still don't HAVE to jump, I just can.
Nice point of view.

I don't really know why you're talking about sneak attack. It's not the point. AOO are useless, that's a part of the point.

Not sure it's really usefull to talk about it if that's your arguments.

D&D and the FR have a better sense of reality than BG3 whatever you think about it.

I don't know if video games are for you and instead tabletop allows you to not be impacted by the visuals represented, thus allowing your picture of action in your head satisfying your immersion. Some people like books over movies.

If combat "required" you to have to do something ridiculous like put on 20 hats in order to avoid being knocked out otherwise you are severely punished every round you don't have a hat on...then sure I don't want to be forced to play in a way I disagree with and I would choose a different game.

On the other hand, if a game allowed me to play as a tight rope walking gnome ranger with acrobatics and dropping animal companion squirrels on my targets to do damage....but it would be equally as practical to just use a bow and do the same amount of damage and either way is viable and fun, but up to the user...then what is the issue? Do I have to impose my will on others to ensure they don't fight with squirrels because I don't like that and I think they should only use a bow as a ranger and nothing else?

You don't have to jump, it does not provide any specifically greater advantages but it could be used if you like. Otherwise just hit them from the front or use your mobility to walk to the left or right of the target, or use your spells to blind them and get behind them, or use your allies to be in melee range with you to not require you to move at all. All those things are viable and work just fine.

The way you play the game will not break the immersion I have on my own game.

(to your edit, I was talking about sneak attacks due to the discussion 2 or 3 posts above about how impractical and immersion breaking is with sneak attack and backstabs and people jumping everywhere. Tried to show that you don't' have to jump everywhere to get a sneak attack and those are just one way of gaining advantage to enable the skill to proc extra damage)

Your characters are not frogs in many tactical TB video games, so I guess it's not really related to the medium

Who said you can't use anything else than a bow if you're a ranger ? Just choose another class if the ranger doesn't suit... Or play a game like DoS in which classes doesn't really exist.

Jumping/disengage (because that's the beginning) in melee PROVIDE greater advantages, unbalance the game even more, combats looks visually silly, melee characters are useless, the rogue has way less specificity (even if he's still powerfull), many D&D spells, D&D skills and items become useless (i.e things that grants invisibility or and advantage), greatly reduce the tactical value of the game, Etc....

I'm glad you're fine with all this.

Staying true to the 5e rules will kill this game. The game is too ambitious for something like this to work.
They can't afford to ignore DoS fans and casuals. Ignoring these players will lead to a sales disaster.
Unlike Solasta, I doubt BG3 will be able to do enough on D&D fans alone.

Some changes like lowering ac and increasing HP are due to turn-based combat.
The changes to the shove and dip are here to give the character more to do on their turns. The surfaces also mainly serve to diversify low-level combat.
The changes in rest also seem to be due, although it will definitely be changed in some way.
The game has a few broken mechanics that should be fixed sooner or later, but most of them shouldn't be removed just because they aren't in the basic rules (most of them can be fixed by proper tuning).
I don't see a problem with some people not liking it, but I'm afraid a lot won't change.
It seems to me that a lot of problems with the game would be solved if we started from the 5th level but there is no chance for that.

I just don't understand people who want more and more annoying mechanics even though such things don't work well in games (or aren't liked).

The limited extrapolation of the scenarios and examples provided to demonstrate stubborn behavior rooted in flaws in logic being taken at face value and not understood in the context it is provided is somewhat frustrating and I give up, ty. I am now going back to leap frogging and playing battle toads with my green skinned dwarf rogue back stabbing to my heart's content.